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Topic: The new levels and replays section

Out of curiosity: will you only be adding categories (or whatever they are called) for finished/abandoned development levelsets?

I thought of this because I will probably still be intermittently working on my levelset. I will probably make some big changes to it other than adding new levels (namely modifying existing ones), so I would have a little bit of bad feelings if people competed with replays of my levels.

P.S. However, I would not care if people replay-competed on levelsets I have attached other than the main set (iti_levels_r##.zip), which is found in the main thread I use.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP

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Re: The new levels and replays section

Just some references for the potential replay databse/system:

  • https://tmnforever.tm-exchange.com/main.aspx - tm-exchange, the replay DB for Trackmania, runs on ASPX and C#, i.e. not good I guess, but the site design is good.

  • https://xmoto.tuxfamily.org/index.php?page=highscores - XMoto, another open-source game, this might be what the inspiration could come from. I've briefly played the game and the system seems very advanced, the game communicates with the server and upload/downloads the replays automatically (from what I've understood), so that when you play a level you're playing against the current world record.

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Re: The new levels and replays section

It the it wrote:

Out of curiosity: will you only be adding categories (or whatever they are called) for finished/abandoned development levelsets?

My current plan is having dedicated sub-forums for completed levelsets and grouping them together by author if applicable.  Two additional miscellaneous sub-forums will be made for abandoned and in progress levelsets. 





As for the general operation of all this replay sharing stuff, I'm more or less coming up with the organization of everything as I go, and making it a free for all for players to challenge each other as they please...  a bit chaotic perhaps, but better than nothing.  We'll see how this all plays out and go from there.

Should a new wave of game developers step in with the intent of building an automated system into the game (like tastyfish pointed out with XMoto)  I would certainly be on board.  As things currently stand however, I am not much of a developer and am simply unable to implement and advanced system like that on my own.

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Re: The new levels and replays section

vidski wrote:

Should a new wave of game developers step in with the intent of building an automated system into the game (like tastyfish pointed out with XMoto)  I would certainly be on board.  As things currently stand however, I am not much of a developer and am simply unable to implement and advanced system like that on my own.

If this were to happen I would not be exactly sure what I would think. I feel some kind of nostalgia when thinking of the old system of the Nevertable or this equivalent you are setting up, even though it is much newer. For a humble little open-source game I think the feeling these not-too-complicated setups with a web browser as the medium goes nicely. I just donot think it would feel the same to have a sophisticated system for sharing replays similar to, for example, the level sharing system for Portal 2.

Anyway, these are only feelings. I actually do not really care what happens. But whatever happens, I also would by 99% chance not have the developing/etc skills to do anything very complicated. (I do not have experience doing server-side scripts that upload things to servers or whatever you would say.)


Off-topic: Heree is a little idea for a way you could compete with replays:

I remember that in the Nevertable days the competition for a level essentially ended once someone got the high enough record for the level. Well I thought maybe a way to extend the lifespan of the interest in a given level would involve resetting the replays for the level periodically, say every 2 months. During each period you would have groups of people, say 5 each, all working together to get the highest average score for that group. The number of groups could be, say , 5 or something. At the end of the period the average score of each group would be compared. The group with the highest avg score would get some kind of little reward, say a 16x16px icon. smile

Whatever this idea is, too complicated or too simple or a little trite or something, maybe you could get your own idea from it?

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP

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Re: The new levels and replays section

Nice replays, Tastyfish! Have you tried any of the Nevermania levels?

About the Nevertable and competition
First, kudos to vidski for establishing the records section!

Before any further steps in reviving the Nevertable are taking, though, it might be helpful to think about what you/we want to achieve by doing so:

1. Competing with and trying to beat others
I agree with It the it that competing for records becomes boring, once the record is maxed out. In that case, maybe regular contests under a time limit might be a better option. Like, best replay made in 24 hours wins.

2. Improving own skills
If you mainly want to learn how to play the game better, replays on the Nevertable can show you how. But then it would be even better to have replays for different skill levels (not just the best), so that you have several benchmarks for improvement.

3. Finding out what's possible
This is mostly what I'm interested in: How do you reach all coins in difficult levels? I don't even care if I can do it myself or if somebody else shows me how. If it's just about coins, it may not even be necessary to finish the level to make a useful replay.

None of these three reasons really makes it necessary to have an automated system to collect the replays. But for a "how to" guide it would help if the replays were sorted not just by levelset, but also ordered by number in set. Right now it's a bit chaotic. Adding a reference page with links to all replays might be a good idea at some point.

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Re: The new levels and replays section

( I split these posts from tastyfish iLevels replay thread since they had trailed off into a separate, yet very valid discussion regarding this new section of the forum.  )

It the it wrote:

For a humble little open-source game I think the feeling these not-too-complicated setups with a web browser as the medium goes nicely. I just dont think it would feel the same to have a sophisticated system for sharing replays

I totally get this.  An automated system can easily just run away with itself and make the whole competition feel lifeless.  Users manually posting their own replays on the other hand adds a sense of pride, and seems to stir up a lot of good conversation between players that contributes to the overall fun of it. 

I also agree about the competition dying off once the best records are maxed out.  Your periodic reset idea may very well help with this.  Or perhaps a poll for best upload of the month.  We can also encourage different skill types as Craven mentioned.  "Best time run" ,  "Most coins run"  ,  "Crazy tricks run"  ,  "Specific user request"   or whatever.



The inevitably chaotic pileup of pages upon pages of threads for a 25 level set is the next major consideration.  My initial plan was more or less in line with Cravens suggestion of having a reference page with an organized list of links to all the various threads and replays within.  The more I think about it though, a potential long term problem emerges...

This method would require someone, or several of you, to make sure this reference thread stays organized and updated,  meaning you would frequently keep up with and edit the first post of this reference thread as new topics and replays are posted.   This type of maintenance could get overwhelmingly cumbersome as more and more players get involved.   The original nevertable database contains over 1,700 replays.  To my understanding... this very notion was a significant factor in why it became difficult to keep up with, and gradually fell behind. 

That being said... I could alleviate this to some extent by creating a dedicated set of threads for each individual level, and not allowing any additional new topics to be made.  This forces replays to be uploaded in specific predetermined threads, and provides an inherent level of "effortless organization" by cutting down on the possibility of redundancy and confusion.  An example of this would be someone posting a new topic for their 'most coins on level 5'  replay, when in fact there already was a handful of most coins on level 5 replays posted somewhere on page 2.

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Re: The new levels and replays section

vidski wrote:

An automated system can easily just run away with itself and make the whole competition feel lifeless.  Users manually posting their own replays on the other hand adds a sense of pride, and seems to stir up a lot of good conversation between players that contributes to the overall fun of it.

insight! big_smile

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP

8 (edited by Challenge Space Yard 2018-04-21 11:48:58)

Re: The new levels and replays section

Concerns for maxing out are the reasons I originally came up with Random Course Tournaments on Neverputt Calendar.

Every so often (originally 3 Mondays per month, then became monthly), I would introduce a new course that people could play. To further tighten the competition, random course tournaments would close at the end of every season (originally monthly, then became quarterly).

Still, multiple issues put an end to this, notably the fact that there is a hard limit of 16 courses, and the available pre-designed courses alone exceeds this limit!

Welcome... to the Nevergalaxy!
(and also Neverputt Calendar)