1

Topic: Beginning to Map

I'm interested in making Neverball levels. I plan to use GTK Radiant. To get started, I download the 1.6.6 and put the folder the Neverball Root Directory right?

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DownloadingGTKradiant.PNG 2.14 mb, 1 downloads since 2018-04-15 

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Re: Beginning to Map

https://github.com/Neverball/neverball- … /README.md

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Re: Beginning to Map

I just came across this, what do I do?

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Problem2.PNG 199.69 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

4 (edited by It the it 2018-04-17 02:58:39)

Re: Beginning to Map

there are probably various threads in this forum, esp in this category ("Level contributions") (or wuteveritiscalled), that could help you. A good deal of these threads are people wanting to get started mapping but they have questions doing so. donot forget the "search" feature

maybe some would be http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2906, http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?pid=32237

also donot forget to look in the lvl documentatoin for help


EDIT: Since late december 2015 I have been able to use the version of GTKRadiant shown in the attached img to make maps in Windows 10. (in this img pay attention to the url shown and the link pointed to by red arrow) (btw the section of the webpage that the img shows is near the top of it)
See these two quotes:

It the it wrote:

P.P.S. Although it is definitely better to get help on this from a developer like Parasti, Hopefully this little effort of mine will help you get "the ball rolling"  tongue

  --from post 2 in thread "im making an level" (linked here)

and

parasti wrote:

I'm sorry, but your Windows instructions are wrong. Please make sure that what you are posting as advice is accurate. Otherwise it's just bad advice.

  --from post 6 in thread "How To Open .nbr Files" (not linked here) (this is what he/she said to me)


editedit: forgot img tongue added it
(trying to answer question from your 2nd post in this thread:) Since late Dec 2015 what I have done is placing the root directory of (gtk)radiant outside the nb root directory, say in C:\Program Files (x86)\ (or C:\Program Files (x86)\ ). I am not really sure if it would matter if you placed the (gtk) radiant root folder in the nb root folder, but I doubt there would be much benefit it doing this anyway.

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4_16_18_4_51pm.jpeg 103.11 kb, 10 downloads since 2018-04-16 

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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5

Re: Beginning to Map

parasti wrote:

To clarify, the only editor that I am recommending to use is NetRadiant. Not GtkRadiant 1.5.0. Not GtkRadiant 1.6.x. The setup instructions are linked above. You're free to use any of the other ones, of course.

I made final decision, I'm using NetRadiant. So I got it running, and I came across this, (problem3). I pressed okay and then it showed the NetRadiant statup screen and then this, (Problem4). I pressed okay and I'm in NetRadiant and I see this, (Problem5).

The biggest thing is that I those files in the directory and I set the preference to the nb root directory like instructions said.

(PS: Sorry if I'm being a pain, I'm trying top get the program to work, and I hope able to get it working)

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problem3.PNG 33.59 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

problem4.PNG 34.42 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

problem5.PNG 17.32 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

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Re: Beginning to Map

KodeBreaker wrote:

(PS: Sorry if I'm being a pain, I'm trying top get the program to work, and I hope able to get it working)

It's ok. More questions, higher post count!

tongue

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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7

Re: Beginning to Map

KodeBreaker wrote:

The biggest thing is that I those files in the directory and I set the preference to the nb root directory like instructions said.

Your folder layout is extremely confusing. Don't put the netradiant folder inside the neverball folder. It doesn't belong there.

I also suspect that your netradiant folder is missing some files, so it would be best to remove it and start over.

Now here's the thing. There's a problem with the instructions I linked earlier - they're slightly out of date. There's no need to manually install the Neverball gamepack anymore, because it is already included in NetRadiant.

So let's go over the steps, just to rule out any random error. Here's how I just did it:

1) Downloaded NetRadiant for Windows
2) Extracted the file to D:\Games\
3) Launched radiant.exe
4) Selected Neverball in the game list (see netradiant-games.png)
5) Selected D:\Games\neverball-1.6.0 as the engine path (see netradiant-path.png). How do you know which path is the correct one? The correct path contains neverball.exe and the data folder.
6) Waited until the radiant window loads (it can take a while)
7) Double clicked on mtrl to load the textures (see netradiant-lives.png).

If any of these steps didn't succeed, let me know which one and we'll figure it out from there.

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netradiant-games.png, 4.18 kb, 455 x 167
netradiant-games.png 4.18 kb, 1 downloads since 2018-04-18 

netradiant-lives.png, 47.81 kb, 600 x 486
netradiant-lives.png 47.81 kb, 3 downloads since 2018-04-18 

netradiant-path.png, 3.54 kb, 314 x 134
netradiant-path.png 3.54 kb, 1 downloads since 2018-04-18 

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Re: Beginning to Map

I finally got it to work! I just got one more question, where do I add the ball? I know the code to get the ball, I just don't know where I go to.

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Re: Beginning to Map

If you look in the page on github (easy to find, but it is here: https://github.com/Neverball/neverball- … ntities.md ), the entity you use in radiant to place the ball in Neverball is "info_player_start".

To add an entity in radiant, right-click when hovering the mouse over the grid window on the left side. This will bring up a list of entities that you can add by clicking their names. I forget where info_player_start is, but it should be easy to find in this list.

Another way of adding an entity is to bring up the entity window. Looking at the top of the radiant window there should be an icon somewhere that will say "N" and something like "entities" when you hover the mouse over it. There is probably also a menu item in one of the dropdown lists. Another way is to press the "N" key (not sure if capslock matters). Before doing this, you might have to have click/hover over the grid or 3D cam window to set focus on them.
  When you get to the entity window, you will see in it a big section and a small section. The small section will have a list of entities. You can press a key to scroll to an entity starting with the letter you pressed. But before you do this, you might have to set focus on this section and not only the entity window. When you find the entity you want I think dbl click or select it and press enter. Then you will get the entity in the grid/3D cam windows.

good luck

ps darnit as usual I am writing tips 90-100% from memory tongue

pps if you press f1 you can get a help document for radiant in a web browser. This document can be helpful when you have a lvl editing quiestion that is directly pertinent using to radiant but not to Neverball mapping. Also you can find abt out some really useful brush/entity manipulation tools like regions, hiding/unhiding things, texture lock, etc. Keep in mind a lot of this document you can forget if you are only using radiant for Neverball. wink
  darnit you might be able to find the same document onilne but I am forgetting where

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled it down with GIMP.

10

Re: Beginning to Map

KodeBreaker wrote:

I finally got it to work! I just got one more question, where do I add the ball? I know the code to get the ball, I just don't know where I go to.


An additional little trick that helps when starting out is opening finished maps from the game and picking them apart to see how everything is built.  This is especially helpful for learning about all the various entities.... starting location (info_player_start),  movement  (path_corner), and so on.   Examining maps piece by piece in radiant and then playing the same map in game simultaneously provides a visual hands on approach that is very helpful in understanding how everything works.

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Re: Beginning to Map

I got another problem. How do I fix an object from not being fully in the grid.

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grid1.PNG 18.27 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

grid2.PNG 18.72 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

12 (edited by It the it 2018-04-20 05:38:37)

Re: Beginning to Map

If you select an item and press ctrl+g radiant will snap the item to the nearest position on the current grid

This can be useful if an item comes onto a weird position that is not exactly on the grid and hard to work with

link that i meant to put in prev post: gtk radiant editor manual (this would probably be about the same for netradiant)

(this link can be found in link just pasted) In the shortcuts list, you can find ctrl+g and other commands

have fun

EDIT: looking at your screenshots there is not actually a problem. If you are looking at the .map file for lvl 1 in Neverball Easy or some other map, there are sections that are placed on a small grid. To make the offset lines in your images match the grid, change (er, shrink) the grid size.

You can change to diff grid sizes by the "grid" dropdown menu at the top of the radiant window. Or, you can press the hotkeys that you can see in this dropdown menu.

one last tip: if you goto a file found in the C:\User\username\AppData\(oneormorefolders)\ there is a file that you can open to view/edit a list of hotkeys. for me it is (huh)\Roaming\RadiantSettings\1.5.0\q3.game\shortcuts.ini

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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13

Re: Beginning to Map

I just read the info about curve and I think I'm confused about curve. hmm

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Re: Beginning to Map

What type of curve do you mean? The type that is made with radiant's tools or the ones made with the curve tool that comes with Neverball?

Using only neverball's curve tool would definitely be recommended. Not only would in many cases the curves made by radiant not work in-game, radiant's tools and the nb curve tools make curves a bit differently. I remember ht-never posted at some point saying there was a problem with curves made from the 2 diff tools not overlapping very well or something.

For a while I was also confused about using nb's curve tool, which has the filename "curve.exe". As with the mapc program, if you have to use it with the command line or it will not work. These days there is also a version of curve that works in the browser. ( link ) This can help you get used to using the curve tool because the pic changes when you change one of the curve parameters.

To use a curve you make with it, click the "get .map" link/button and the page will open a box. Copy all the text in this box. Make an empty .txt file in the desktop/in the file explorer by right-clicking and clicking "new Text Document". But instead give this text file the extension ".map". Open this file with notepad / etc. and paste and save. Then you can open this file in radiant.

ps I found the link in this github page

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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15

Re: Beginning to Map

I got a question. Is it possible to take this piece of land (curve1), and turn it into something like this (curve2) using curve.exe? Or would I have to use Radiant's Curve?

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Curve1.PNG 98.1 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

Curve2.PNG 750.53 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

16

Re: Beginning to Map

As I said, I think the devs would say you should forget all about radiant's curve tools  :0

(looking at Curve1.PNG) Sorry, in order to go from the straight path you have to a curved one, you would have to build the path all over again to get the curved path. All the cmd and browser curve tools can do is create new maps using the parameters you give them. Then you have to use radiant's "import" command (I think it is) to place the .map file from curve tool into the level in radiant. (this command is in the "file" dropdown) So you cannot give the curve tool an existing set of brushes and have it spit out a curved set of brushes. (But a version of curve tool that would take existing things sounds like a good idea smile )

congratulations on getting the lvl editor to work big_smile

ps I think one reason other than the incompatibility with neverball that you cannot use radiant's curves is that it might make brushes with Concave polygons. Such brushes do not work in neverball. The nb curve tool never makes concave polygons. To my knowledge, however, using only the regular tools in radiant you cannot make brushes with concave polygon faces.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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17

Re: Beginning to Map

http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.p … 249#p31249

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Re: Beginning to Map

So it says "thickness" for my curve. How do I find out what's the thickness for my brushes in Radiant so I can match the thickness my brush and curve?

19

Re: Beginning to Map

I also saw an easier way of doing the edges on a brush. How do I do that?

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Edges.PNG 260.38 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

20 (edited by It the it 2018-04-22 20:52:39)

Re: Beginning to Map

KodeBreaker wrote:

So it says "thickness" for my curve. How do I find out what's the thickness for my brushes in Radiant so I can match the thickness my brush and curve?

The "thickness" parameter and all the other parameters in curve use the same length per square unit as the length per square unit of radiant. This means that one square unit in Neverball gameplay is the same length as in radiant.

So this means all you have to do to match the thickness (length of brush along vertical axis) of, say, the beginning of a curve with the end of a striaght path is to find the thickness of the non-curved brush in radiant and use the number of this thickness in curve tool.
2 methods:
  *If the thickness of the brush starts and ends along one or more grids that you can switch to in radiant, you can read the thickness by looking at the number of grid spaces that go along the thickness.
  *If you have it on, there is an option in the preferences that will show the dimensions of a brush when you select it. This can tell you the thickness.


I also saw an easier way of doing the edges on a brush. How do I do that?

Two things I can think of:
  *A simple way to add trimming on a platform is to use only one brush for it, painting the sides (walls) with your trim texture and the top with your, say, turf texture. This type of trimming is documented in the same page where you took your screenshot "Edges.PNG".
  *An alternate method of creating the trim pictured in your screenshot: Start with one brush for the platform. Select one of the decal "edge"  textures that have the same "grey spike" pattern on them, but black in the non-gray areas. The areas that appear black in radiant are transparent (invisible) in-game. Referring to the "decals" section in the same nb documentation page, apply narrow decal brushes with one of these "edge" textures where you want the gray spikes to be.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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21

Re: Beginning to Map

How do I make my curve match my straight brush?
(see image below)

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CurveHelp.PNG 391.12 kb, 1 downloads since 2018-04-23 

22 (edited by It the it 2018-04-24 01:10:24)

Re: Beginning to Map

When you have any selection of brushes, there is a command that moves the selection up along the vertical axis (z-axis, I think) and another that moves the selection down the vertical axis. I forgot what the default hotkeys for these commands are because for a long time now I have used my own hotkey configuration. tongue But looking at the shortcuts page I linked to in post 12, I think they are "keypad plus" and "keypad minus" (see attached screenshot of part of this page in mind)

You might be able to access these commands thru the dropdown menus at the top of the radiant window


EDIT: another tip: If you have a big group of brushes that would be awkward to select all over again like the selection in your scrnshot, you can rightclick the grid window and click "func_group" while all the brushes are selected. When you deselect the brushes, you can select one brush in the func_group and push ctrl+e (i think) to select all the brushes of the group.
warning: While func_groups can save a good deal of time while editing a map, you have to ungroup all your func_groups before you compile your level. (only 80% sure abt following shortcutkeys/dropdown menus following) To ungroup them, open the entity list by pressing the "l" key or dropdown menu entities>entity list. Open dropdown "entities" and click the faint line at top of dropdown. This will make a detached window. In entity list click the first func_group. Then shift+click on the last func_group. Click "ungroup" in the detached window over and over again until the func_groups are gone.

The real meaning of this warning is that, while using func_groups can save time while editing a map, they can pose another pain themselves. In levels I have made with a lot of func_groups the ungrouping could take a long time and then I would have to do this every time I made a small tweak. Sometime I want to make a little program that would automatically ungroup the func_groups and compile the level in the same key press.    The choice of using func_group is definitely up to you!

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It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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23

Re: Beginning to Map

I've been trying to use the + and - keys and they're literally not doing anything. I checked my shortcuts and yes, that's keys I'm supposed to press from what it is saying.

24 (edited by It the it Yesterday 04:13:13)

Re: Beginning to Map

All I can think of at the moment:

*You might want to try changing numlock and/or capslock and see if this helps.

*In addition to the prev "*" item, you might want to try using the "-" and "+" keys of the keyboard in the horizontal row of numbers, er, the - and + keys in the main part of the keyboard.

If these donot work, the best thing I can think of is to try changing the shortcuts.ini file a bit. This file can be found in a radiant-related folder in one of the folders in C:\Users\username\AppData\ (this is a folder I think I typed in a different post kinda recently). In this .ini file is discussed a bit in the appendix portion in the radiant manual I linked to in post 12. If something goes wrong while editing this file, you can delete it and radiant will make a new, default one.

EDIT: What I mean abt changing the shortcuts.ini file is that you would change the kbd shortcut commands for the 2 commands of interest. (When making this change, you might want to be aware of accidentally making the new hotkeys overlap, er be the same as, the hotkeys of any other commands. :0 The search command(s) in your text editor can help chk for these overlaps.)

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

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25 (edited by KodeBreaker Today 01:04:23)

Re: Beginning to Map

How do I make my curve the same size as my piece of straight land?
(BTW I'm using paxed's curve tool to make my curves)

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