1

Topic: Some Ideas

I am sure that Neverball is a great game but there are some problems which cause bad effects to game.

First of all; the biggest problem is some levels are nearly impossible to pass. Of course, there should be some hard levels but don't have to be nearly impossible. Because, at this point, people just give up.

Secondly, the game does not have game modes. For example,  you can easily add survival mode.

Lastly, I have a great idea for neverball. Level maker. Yes, people would make levels and they should share to each other like Mario maker.

2 (edited by dtb 2017-08-23 12:43:41)

Re: Some Ideas

Only very few levels are that hard. Therefore I don't think this is a real issue having negative impact on the whole game. There are more than enough levels people will be able to finish before reaching one of the almost impossible ones. In this context it's also important to play through the sets in sequence (and not to skip whole parts) in order to learn all of them necessarily needed skills later levels require.

Over the years I have managed to complete almost all levels except for 3 levels from Nevermania and Inferno (level by Elviz) and another user-built level by Ctoan. Oh and of course I also didn't complete It the it's 2 presumably 'impossible levels'. I know exactly what you mean (the frustation I got from Nevermania 13 made me quit playing for at least half a year), but I guess we need those almost impossible levels as well, just something to gnaw on, otherwise, the moment you finished the last level would probably arrive too soon and feel like 'neverball finished - no more levels left to beat', let's continue with another thing.

I'm sure that I could still make some progress here and there but it's just that I don't devote so much time to playing Neverball anymore like I used to some years ago - and without practicing there's no way to improve on these kind of levels.

As you might know, people already create their own levels and share them, documentation for level creation is on github.  Surely an in-game level editor/maker would be awesome but I'm afraid there's some good reason why this feature hasn't been integrated yet.

Welcome to the forums!

cheers

dtb

3

Re: Some Ideas

nilboard wrote:

Secondly, the game does not have game modes. For example,  you can easily add survival mode.

If you mean by "survival mode" one in which you progress through many levels without losing a certain number of lives / etc., there is already such a thing: Challenge Mode.

BTW, I someday hope to add a practice mode in which the player would activate check points throughout a level by rolling near them. Once activated, the player could place the ball at a check point after falling out. This would allow the player to figure out difficult sections of levels without having to clear the preceding sections of the level over and over again. Consequently, the player would not be able to unlock new levels in this mode.   Possibly this would help ameliorate your problem of  "nearly impossible" levels?

Welcome to the forums nilboard ! ,
--It the it

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

I created my avatar with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled it down with GIMP.

4 (edited by dtb 2017-08-24 07:26:35)

Re: Some Ideas

It the it wrote:

... I someday hope to add a practice mode in which the player would activate check points throughout a level by rolling near them. Once activated, the player could place the ball at a check point after falling out. This would allow the player to figure out difficult sections of levels without having to clear the preceding sections of the level over and over again. ...

Great idea, picking up the game right at the point you caused a fall-out, or at least a checkpoint nearby, really would have helped me to overcome the final, somehow aslope section of RDF20 much easier (without gathering so much frustration while having to go through 'the whole narrow nightmare' over and over again...)
Lengthy levels like RDF V would also benefit a lot from such feature.
Keep up the good work (and ideas), It the it!

cheers

dtb

5

Re: Some Ideas

dtb wrote:

... picking up the game right at the point you caused a fall-out, or at least a checkpoint nearby, really would have helped me to overcome the final, somehow aslope section of RDF20 much easier (without gathering so much frustration while having to go through 'the whole narrow nightmare' over and over again...) ...

On second thought, maybe having to clear a part of a level over and over again to practice a hard section was something that the original developer(s) intended? This would mean that a practice mode as I am envisioning would (sort of) break a premise of the game.   After all, learning to suppress your frustration in such cases builds patience.

Otherwise, maybe another solution to "frustrating repetition" is in the level design.    Example: My level "Bounce Box" is, in my opinion, a tiring pair of elements: first you have to collect quite a few coins to unlock the goal. To do this, you either follow a tedious method, rolling up the same halfpipe several times and carefully falling straight downward to collect coins. Or, you use the launch pads placed in the level to collect some hard coins, which is about Nevermania-difficulty.  Next you potentially have to "re-activate" these launch pads, which is also tedious. Then, to reach the goal, you have to scramble to make several difficult jumps using the launch pads (difficulty spike from previous actions !!!). If you fall-out here, you have to do the tedious part all over again.

The line of events of RDF 20 is also linear, with easy moves followed by one or more hard ones. This seems to be a design trend in many levels (such as in TDF and RDF, Nevermania, Ctoan's levels, etc.). Basically what I meant in the example using my level is that levels with forking/forking-and-merging/branching/etc. lines of possible actions is a way to avoid "frustrating repetition." (Some levels like this: Medium 9, Medium III, TDF II)

Now I feel ambivalent.

--It the it

P.S. To fix the problem in Bounce Box, I plan to separate the level into 2 non-bonus levels: one with the coin-collecting part and the other with the scrambling-and-jumping part.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988

I created my avatar with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled it down with GIMP.

6

Re: Some Ideas

Having played NB for severall years now, I also got repeatedly frustrated by some levels. As It the it said, a non-linear level design helps here. If you manage to collect a difficult to reach coin, this is also progress. Unfortunately, it isn't directly rewarded by the game.

Most of the Nevermania levels are modular in the sense that you can practice a particular stunt without having to do tons of other equally difficult stuff first to get there. This is a good way to design a level. However, these levels would become way too easy with checkpoints.

I believe a better alternative is to design additional "practice" versions of a difficult level that contain only some of the difficult elements. Reshaun's sets contain several obvious examples, like an easier version of RDF 20.

For large or otherwise complicated levels a "grab mode" might be helpful, in which you can use a cheat to manually move around the ball in any way you want. This way you can safely explore the level and maybe get ideas how to solve it.

7

Re: Some Ideas

The original post reminds me of an idea I originally proposed several years ago.

Also named Survival Mode, it assigned a time limit for the entire level set, with time left over from the previous level being added to the next level, plus any time bonus from coins collected. Time spent on failed runs (fail outs) is lost when restarting a level. The game would end if time completely expires.

In light of the growing complexity of the game, I ultimately abandoned the idea in favor of adding per-level time extension "clock" items into the custom build, Neverball Clockwork. Although based on bleeding edge code, it has not been updated in a while.

Welcome... to the Nevergalaxy!
(and also Neverputt Calendar)