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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

However good his intentions are now, I still maintain that all of protonspring's replays as well as those submitted through neverballaddict must be excluded from the contest.  Given the situation, it's not far fetched to assume that most of them are illegitimate.

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

I have my suspicions as well, but I don't know the code well enough to prove anything.  I would love for someone to come up with a way to discover who is cheating and who isn't, and I think it would be great for neverball AND the contest.

Here's the deal.  If anyone can find any proof that my any of my current replays aren't valid, I will voluntarily remove all of them from the table.


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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

protonspring wrote:

Thank you.

You're more than welcome.

protonspring wrote:

if there is something I can do to help make neverball better please suggest it.

From the previous posts you've made, it sounds like you've written a tool to try to identify discrepancies in replays. I'd say that if you wanted to pursue it further, it might be worthwhile to post that code or put it somewhere where the rest of the community can comment on/draw from your ideas.

Cheese
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cheesetalks.net

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

protonspring wrote:

There are those who have reasons to not really want me involved and I understand why...

For whatever it's worth, I will say that in general, the more participation the better. I am glad you like the game and that you are choosing to participate in this forum. Of course if you do or say things that aren't well received, you will hear about it, but that doesn't mean you are unwelcome. Even if some feel your records should be excluded from the contest, it still doesn't mean that you can't be a part of the community and contribute to the development of the game if you so choose.

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

Oh no, you are mistaken to think that what I have is "suspicion".  I am certain that the majority of your replays are illegitimate.  The existing evidence as well your own actions throughout this entire farce is more than enough reason for me to hold that belief, without needing any further proof.  This is why I request that your replays be removed.  It is unfortunate that these people are much more patient and much more forgiving than I am, perhaps even too patient and too forgiving in this case.

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

Unsubstantiated assertions and "certainty" without any proof just won't get you very far around here.  Trust me.  I've been on that side of this argument and we all know how that turned out.  Hopefully you can do a better job than I did and you can find a way to root out the replays that aren't valid.

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

Which side would that be?   Is that the one where guy X accuses guy Y without any evidence whatsoever (kind of like you accusing Elviz)?  Or is that the one where guy X is proven to be a cheater, lies his ass off when confronted, and is apparently completely unaware of either of these things having taken place (kind of like you in this situation)?


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83

Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

Example 1: Guy X (me) accuses Guy Y (Mr. K) of spamming. Others on the forum (braver than me) download the link of Guy Y (Mr. K) and find legitimate neverball levels. Guy X (me) apologises to Guy Y (Mr. K) publicly, and welcomes him to the neverball community.

Example 2: Guy X competes in the Tour de France, and is found to be using EPO or other performance enhancing steroid, or masking agent. He is banned from competition for two years (if it were up to me, it would be a lifetime ban), and then he competes in the Tour De France again. Regardless of how poorly or well he competes, Guy X will always be tarnished as a drug cheat.

This second example pretty much sums up the situation with doctored Neverball code and cheating replays uploaded to the Nevertable. All your replays are tainted, and all your replays from now on will be tainted.

I'm glad that you enjoy Neverball, and hope you can contribute in some other way, be it levels or code - just remove your replays from Nevertable, so we can move ahead, and leave all this nastiness behind.

Currently Playing:
Celeste and Electronic Super Joy

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

Example 2 is pretty close, but I think it would be more like the following:

Several years ago Guy X uses "enhancements" in a Tour de France.  Guy X stopped using the "enhancements" shortly thereafter and practices until he can keep up with the leaders.  Years later, Guy X is still competing and it is discovered that he had cheated in a Tour de France long ago, although there is NO evidence of current use.  He confesses, explains, gives up his winnings for those races and publicly apologizes.  Some forgive him and move on, some don't.  His career will justifiably be met with increased scrutiny forever more, but he is still allowed to race.

Is that closer?

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

I am not to sure why I am wirting this but:
protonspring you are not in the best position to argue.
Even if your example is true (which it seems) with such words you will do no difference and produce only more text (as I am doing now).

You have a tool which can analyse replays to confirm them, than post the code somewhere as was asked at least two times. Do something useful as post comments on the new set of Mr. K. or make suggestion to improve the game (I know you already did that) or something else.

This thread could be useful to improve the game by finding solution against cheats but as it is it: It is a FlameWar!
Even if the Troll (sorry they are called that way) who started it apologized for it. Everyone has it opinion and it is not going to change in this thread.
(It is a small FlameWar)

Please do something useful with your time smile

I know I am not one of the regulars but non the less it is my opinion
(but with my name who cares wink )

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

I'm not sure, but it seems like Elviz, parasti, and probably others have their analysis tools.  I don't think my tool does anything that their tools don't already do.  I would gladly donate it, but I'm not sure they want it.  Perhaps it would be appropriate to start a developer thread for a replay analyzer, and we could all post our tools for someone to integrate?

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

more talk from protonspring... sigh!

Currently Playing:
Celeste and Electronic Super Joy

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Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

big_smile I agree with neverbe!

(And I have stopped thinking about why I read/write in this forum years ago...)


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89 (edited by Cheeseness 2010-10-17 20:29:47)

Re: Timer deltas in Nevertable records

protonspring wrote:

I'm not sure, but it seems like Elviz, parasti, and probably others have their analysis tools.

I think you'll find that it's more familiarity with what Neverball is actually doing under the hood than any established testing mechanisms.

protonspring wrote:

I would gladly donate it, but I'm not sure they want it.  Perhaps it would be appropriate to start a developer thread for a replay analyzer, and we could all post our tools for someone to integrate?

Don't ask. Just do it!

Cheese
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cheesetalks.net