1 (edited by Elviz 2014-01-20 01:28:23)

Topic: Nevermania level set

Nevermania

Thought I'd take a break from playing Neverball levels and design some instead. smile

Edit: As of 2009, the resulting level set is part of the official releases of Neverball (1.5.x) and Nuncabola, having been included in development versions of Neverball since January 2008.

Level: Atrium

http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/atrium-shot-tn.png  http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/atrium-game-tn.png

Difficulty: Medium.

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Re: Nevermania level set

Your level is quite eye candy Elviz, it seems basic but reveals a very good challenge when trying to grab some coins.
The columns are original, while the rest of the level remains classical.

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Re: Nevermania level set

looks coolio

Mac OS X Xcode project & package maintainer.

If you have some Neverball related files you need hosted somewhere, please send a me forum PM/email.

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Re: Nevermania level set

I was just going to comment on your sense of humour ("Difficulty: Medium") but then I noticed that I don't actually need any of those hard-to-reach coins to finish the level.  smile  I like it very much.  Looks like you've paid close attention to rlk's mapping documentation.  Really nice work.

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Re: Nevermania level set

Hey, great level Elviz..!
I do hope you make more.
If this is going to be a medium difficulty level, I think you ought to be sure to include some hint about a technique for reaching the highest coins.. more advanced players have already learned a few "un-obvious" techniques, whereas intermediate level calls for a somehwat specified task or technique to master.

Great work.

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Re: Nevermania level set

mym wrote:

The columns are original, while the rest of the level remains classical.

Indeed; for this level, I wanted to build on the standard "green platform" pattern and add a new idea to it. I actively try to keep things basic and focused.

parasti wrote:

I was just going to comment on your sense of humour ("Difficulty: Medium") but then I noticed that I don't actually need any of those hard-to-reach coins to finish the level.  smile

Yes, it's possible to unlock the goal without getting a single one of the column coins. Alternatively, you can finish the level with two red coins and no blue ones. You still need the yellow ones, though.

tonesfrommars wrote:

If this is going to be a medium difficulty level, I think you ought to be sure to include some hint about a technique for reaching the highest coins.. more advanced players have already learned a few "un-obvious" techniques, whereas intermediate level calls for a somehwat specified task or technique to master.

Actually, I made the level first and only afterwards thought about the difficulty rating. You're right, for a "medium" level there should probably be some short instructions. There are two different strategies for getting the coins on the columns, but I don't want to give them away in the level intro text. I like levels that contain some (mild) puzzle elements. Guess I'll just change the rating to "Hard". wink  The blue coin high up in the air is a bonus coin anyway, the ten points are for figuring out how to get it (it's not too hard...).

parasti wrote:

Really nice work.

tonesfrommars wrote:

Great work.

Thanks, guys! smile

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Re: Nevermania level set

Looks fantastic - just quickly knock up another 24 and you'll have a set!  <-- smile Joke!

I know from a beginner's point of view levels seem to never be completed...

Great looking level Elviz - keep up the sterling work!

Currently Playing:
Celeste and Electronic Super Joy

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Re: Nevermania level set

Good idea there. smile

9 (edited by Elviz 2012-04-12 19:30:31)

Re: Nevermania level set

The positive feedback for my first level encouraged me to do another one.

Level: Spacetime

http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/spacetime-shot-tn.png  http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/spacetime-game-tn.png

This time, it's a small adventure set in space. It's more complex than the Atrium level, and the puzzle factor is higher. Difficulty is in the Mehdi range.

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Re: Nevermania level set

Heh.  Your maps are polished enough to start nit-picking instead of being helpful.  smile  Not my kind of map.  I'm not fond of being forced to start over a level and this one requires it, unless you already know what is going to happen next;  I don't think it's a good way to introduce a map.  I had trouble with the last switch, not sure it's very intuitive.

Looking really good, though.  The "stop" sign is a nice addition.  Keep 'em coming!

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Re: Nevermania level set

Hey Elviz...

Very nice level, I'm loving these.
You've used a couple of textures I created (the white marble in your first level, and the bricks)
I noticed that in the 2nd level, the brick texture on top of the platforms could be shifted slightly to line up with the placement on the sides of the platforms, you may not prefer it that way, but I thought I'd mention it as an option.

Man, I hope you keep on making levels. They're very high quality.

12 (edited by Elviz 2007-04-12 10:01:03)

Re: Nevermania level set

parasti wrote:

I'm not fond of being forced to start over a level and this one requires it, unless you already know what is going to happen next;  I don't think it's a good way to introduce a map.

Yes, you'll have to restart this level a couple of times until you have found out what's going on and what to do. I don't mind that, really. It's part of the challenge. Also, people restart levels all the time. For example, the fact that you could theoretically finish M25 on the first attempt (because there are no unexpected events) doesn't make much difference. That said, I've added two warning signs to the first platform - this should give the player a sense of impending danger without spoiling the surprise. smile

I had trouble with the last switch, not sure it's very intuitive.

I reworked the level, the last switch now has a different function with an immediately visible effect. Should be more intuitive now.

Your maps are polished enough to start nit-picking instead of being helpful.

Nit-picking can be helpful, too. I cannot promise to always make changes but please do tell me your opinion!

13 (edited by Elviz 2007-08-05 01:18:40)

Re: Nevermania level set

tonesfrommars wrote:

You've used a couple of textures I created (the white marble in your first level, and the bricks)

Hey, cool! I didn't know that. I just took them from the 1.5 texture repository.

I noticed that in the 2nd level, the brick texture on top of the platforms could be shifted slightly to line up with the placement on the sides of the platforms, you may not prefer it that way, but I thought I'd mention it as an option.

Thanks for catching this! It's a good suggestion. I've made the necessary changes, and the updated map is now available for download.

14 (edited by Elviz 2012-04-12 19:31:38)

Re: Nevermania level set

Level: Swarm

http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/swarm-shot-tn.png  http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/swarm-game-tn.png

This level is a bit simpler again. It is based on a flat platform that should allow for some pleasant coin collecting. In theory, anyway. smile

15 (edited by Challenge Space Yard 2007-03-29 22:54:17)

Re: Nevermania level set

Okay. Now for my opinions on these levels.

Level 1: Good and expert-style. Takes some tries, but it was beaten.
Level 2: This levels is impossible to solve from my scope. I don't see how it can be solved. Mirrors should only be flat on the ground with a Z value of 0. Otherwise, they might not get rendered correctly. You have many levels of mirrors, which breaks rlk's recommendation.
Level 3: I have not yet unlocked this level, and therefore cannot give opinions. Also looks impossible from the picture.

Welcome... to the Nevergalaxy!
(and also Neverputt Calendar)

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Re: Nevermania level set

Hey Elviz, very high visual appeal on your levels..
CSY is correct, reflectives only work properly at z=0

THe 3rd level is interesting..
some of the thwomps seem to be non-structural.. is this on purpose..?
Also, the concept is so great, I wonder could the dufficulty level be a little lower..?
Maybe fewer thwomps, i dunno.
Just some ideas.
Anyhow, glad to see more levels from you, keep it up!

17 (edited by Elviz 2007-09-21 20:54:22)

Re: Nevermania level set

Challenge Space Yard wrote:

Level 2: This levels is impossible to solve from my scope. I don't see how it can be solved.

The general difficulty of my set will probably be similar to Mehdi's. This particular level isn't easy, but it's certainly possible to solve it.

Mirrors should only be flat on the ground with a Z value of 0. Otherwise, they might not get rendered correctly. You have many levels of mirrors, which breaks rlk's recommendation.

I know about that. That's why I have used the dark glass texture in most spots where otherwise there would have been mirrors stacked on each other. Some mirrors with a Z coordinate not equal to 0 remain, and I decided that the benefits of keeping the reflective texture there outweighed the rendering irregularities I was able to discern. The look of the level is important, and there was no good replacement for the shiny surface in those places.

(Edit: As of v0.10.1, there is a replacement. All reflective surfaces at z != 0 have been removed.)

Level 3: I have not yet unlocked this level, and therefore cannot give opinions.

At the moment, the levels are in creation order, not in the order of their difficulty. I know it's a problem, there's just no easy solution. I could reorder the levels for each new release but this would screw up all existing high score files.

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Re: Nevermania level set

Elviz wrote:

At the moment, the levels are in creation order, not in the order of their difficulty. I know it's a problem, there's just no easy solution. I could reorder the levels for each new release but this would screw up all existing high score files.

My advice would be to just leave as it is until the final version is done(if it gets there!), by which I mean 25 levels finished. Then go ahead and decide on a level order. People will just have to deal with highscores being reset - it won't affect replays, unless you change the level file names.

19 (edited by Elviz 2007-04-12 10:01:57)

Re: Nevermania level set

tonesfrommars wrote:

THe 3rd level is interesting..
some of the thwomps seem to be non-structural.. is this on purpose..?

Hmm... no, they are all structural. Sometimes it seems as though one of the thwomps should have hit the ball but usually that's just due to a deceptive perspective.

Also, the concept is so great, I wonder could the dufficulty level be a little lower..?
Maybe fewer thwomps, i dunno.

Play this level for a while, and I promise it will become easier. In the beginning it seems that "Argh! They're everywhere!" (that's intentional). Over time, however, you will get used to their movement patterns and can build strategies based on them. Different textures also allow you to distinguish different groups of thwomps. Moreover, there are some "safe zones" where you can think about your next moves without fear of getting thwomped.

Anyhow, glad to see more levels from you, keep it up!

I'll try! smile

20 (edited by Elviz 2012-04-12 19:32:55)

Re: Nevermania level set

Level: Ramps

http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/ramps-shot-tn.png  http://uppgarn.com/files/nevermania/ramps-game-tn.png

The goal is high up in the evening sky in this one. It's probably the most difficult level of the set so far.

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Re: Nevermania level set

Gave up after about a thousand tries.  For now.  smile  I think I've gotten lazy because of all that Medium set stuff.  The texturing is very nice.

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Re: Nevermania level set

Hey Elviz, great level.
The flags are amazing, how'd you do that...?  I haven't looked at the map yet.
I love the flag poles with their little bolts and all, your sense of aesthetics is really superb.
I like this kind of challenge, some of the more puzzling ones are easier to lose patience on, or perhaps they're less addictive. You really hit it on the head with this, though it is very difficult.

more more more!

23 (edited by Elviz 2012-04-13 21:01:40)

Re: Nevermania level set

parasti wrote:

I think I've gotten lazy because of all that Medium set stuff.

lol

The texturing is very nice.

Thank you. smile

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Re: Nevermania level set

tonesfrommars wrote:

The flags are amazing, how'd you do that...?

Each flag consists of 63 detail lumps that partly overlap each other. These lumps are grouped in 63 func_trains which are shared by all flags. Some care needed to be taken when choosing the texture for the flag parts so as to hide the divisions. For this reason, the images I used (yellow, red, blue) are uniform over their width, and the values chosen in the material files try to make them immune to Neverball's dynamic lighting. The map code for the actual flag movement (path_corners) was generated by a little program I wrote for this purpose.

Thanks for your kind comments, tones!

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Re: Nevermania level set

YOU GO ELVIZ! Your levels remind me of the excitement of seeing MYM2 levels, and BUD's glass jump level for the first time!

If you perfect them in time - might just squeeze them into the 1.5.0.1 release eh...?

Currently Playing:
Celeste and Electronic Super Joy