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26

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

(thinking of your screenshot and this github page)

Here is a little explanation of parameters r0 and r1:
  >note (see attached screenshot): In paxed's online curve tool, parameter r0 is represented by field A, and parameter r1 by field B, r2 = field C, r3 = field D. When you use the cmd version of curve, r0 = r2 and r1 = r3 as long as you do not say "advanced curve settings". So if you want to have a basic curve, er, no advanced settings in this group of settings, in the online curve tool version make the lines "start radius" and "end radius" the same.)
    V
Here is a partial explanation (based on experience just using curve tool) of how a basic curve is created in curve:
  Imagine you have a center point. The "start radius" parameter (r0) is a distance, er circle radius, starting from the center point. The "end radius" parameter (r1) says how far to extend this radius. This extended section the radius is the part where you get the brushes. Depending on the values in "beginning angle" (a0) and "ending angle" (a1), part of a circle, a whole circle, or more than a circle is filled by brushes when the radius "sweeps" in this angle space.


>now trying to answer your question itself (still thinking of a basic curve):
  The width of one brush in a curve is the difference of the r1 value and the r0 value (r1 - r0). So if you have r0 equal 100 and r1 equal 150, the width of the curve path is this difference: (150 - 100 = 50 units). Then you get a simple equation:
    x = r1 - r0       (x is the width of the curve path)
    OR: r0 = r1 - x


The real thing do to:
1. Get the width of your straight land.
2. Type r0 and r1 so that the diff is the width of your straight land. (the equation can help)
3. When you get the curve you should have what you want

hope this helps


ps thing I 4got to say in prev post: Donot forget the move tool. You can switch to this tool by an icon in the tool bar of radiant. Basically it is great because it lets you move items without being able to resize them etc. When you are switched to it a box with 3 arrows will appear over your selection. I now realize that the "-" and "+" commands that I tried to show you are merely shortcuts for dragging the vertical axis arrow (z i think, the blue one) using this tool.

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It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
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27

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

Right on  It the it  for all this mapping help...   

I'll see a question and think about throwing in a suggestion or two, and then I login later and see you've already got this crazy detailed breakdown and I just think to myself,   "Damn... my mapping skills are rusty as hell."

28

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

Neverball mapping isn't that complicated. You just need to familiarize yourself with how Radiant works.

To resize a brush, select it and do a drag motion outside the brush.

To select multiple brushes, hold shift and make a box. Now you can move and resize the entire selection.

To know the dimensions of the brush, just select it and look at the selection outline. Little red x, y and z numbers tell you the width, height and thickness of your brush in Radiant units.


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29

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

How do I find the radius for the switch, teleporter or goal texture?


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30 (edited by It the it 2018-04-27 22:46:22)

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

vidski wrote:

Right on  It the it  for all this mapping help...

smile thx

To be honest, half the reason I am trying to give these tips is it is somethings to raise me post count. tongue But they are still fun to write


parasti wrote:

Neverball mapping isn't that complicated. You just need to familiarize yourself with how Radiant works.

I think this is good advice. But I do think the curve documentation could have some more abt getting started using the tool, along the lines of the things like the "center point" and "sweeping radius" things I was trying to say...



----------

KodeBreaker wrote:

How do I find the radius for the switch, teleporter or goal texture?

The dimensions of the actual texture files for these 3 textures is 128px. In radiant, the default stretching of a texture in either direction is 0.5. If you select one or more brush faces and press (I think) the "s" key, the surface inspector shows up. This menu has settings for how textures appear. It is a great tool

When you have on a brush the switch or teleporter texture with default stretching, the size of the target is the same as in the actual image file. So this means that (with def stretch) the number of units that one instance (including transparency) of the texture in radiant takes up in either dimension is the same as the number of pixels that either dimension of the actual image file has (128).

So here it is: In a switch/teleporter texture with default stretching or in the actual image file, the diameter of the actual colorful/white circle is 64 units/pixels long. Then the width of the black border ring around this is something like 8 or 4 units/pixels wide. In the goal texture, I think the diameter of th main circle is 96units/px.
  (this is if you want perfect, official-looking targets/teleporters:) Keep in mind that, with the "radius" attribute in the entity for the switch/etc set to default and the texture with default stretching, the circles of the actual switch, teleporter, and goal fields fall on the line in their target textures that is between the main circle and the border ring.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
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にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)

31

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

I got a HUGE Problem! I tried making this square "func_train" making it move down when hitting the switch (see bigproblem).

But when I make ONE object func_train, it turns literally every other object func_train! (see bigproblem2). So, when I test the level and hit the switch, THE WHOLE LEVEL MOVES DOWN!

The worst part is that when I try to turn an object I don't want to be func_train, it takes away the func_train from the object that I wanted to too!

What's the classname for a brush that does nothing? Because I have no Idea what to do here!

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BIGPROBLEM2.PNG 525.19 kb, 72 downloads since 2018-04-27 

32 (edited by It the it 2018-04-28 03:04:25)

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

KodeBreaker wrote:

What's the classname for a brush that does nothing? Because I have no Idea what to do here!

I am not really sure if you could say there is a classname for a brush that has not been turned into an entity (er, tied to an entity or grouped in an entity, howeveryouwanttosay). But I do know that when you select and only select brushes that have not been turned into an entity and open the entity window, it will say "worldspawn" in the classname field. (btw, this is one of two ways to edit the attributes of the level. Another way is to open the .map file with a text editor. Then you can edit the attributes near the start of the file. open an official lvl for an example.) I also know that if you have nothing selected, open the entity window, and click "worldspawn" radiant will select all the brushes in the map. I am not sure if this means it also selects the brushes that have been tied to an entity/ turned into entity.
  So if you want to make some entity brushes no longer entities, you can select some (or all, you might have to do) and click "ungroup" in the "entity" dropdown menu. (as I tried to say, i think you can press ctrl+e when selected to one brush of an entity to select the whole entity)


But when I make ONE object func_train, it turns literally every other object func_train! (see bigproblem2). So, when I test the level and hit the switch, THE WHOLE LEVEL MOVES DOWN!

Not really sure wut to say abt this. A thing I can think of off the top of my head would be to chk for attributes like "target", "state", etc. in the func_train, path_corner, and info_camp entites (see entity page). Btw, I attached a simple (not to mention hastily made) little example map
  (might be unrelated but maybe helpful) I know that if you have a teleporter entity and a teleporter destination entity and give neither of them any attributes, the teleporter will automatically teleport you to the desitnatoin entity (i think). I am thinking of these being the only entities of their type in the map.


The worst part is that when I try to turn an object I don't want to be func_train, it takes away the func_train from the object that I wanted to too!

Sorry I dunno wut to say. A maybe problem is that I have only really used gtkradiant (see here).


hope this helps


ps

THE WHOLE LEVEL MOVES DOWN!

Sounds serious, might might actually be a fun idea for a separate level yikes smile

pps It has been fun to see your lvl developing bit by bit smile

Post's attachments

cheapexample4_27_18.map 4.19 kb, 166 downloads since 2018-04-28 

cheapexample4_27_18.sol 6.95 kb, 143 downloads since 2018-04-28 

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
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33

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

KodeBreaker wrote:

But when I make ONE object func_train, it turns literally every other object func_train! (see bigproblem2). So, when I test the level and hit the switch, THE WHOLE LEVEL MOVES DOWN!

func_train is a grouping entity. If you press L, you can see that some entities are a single unit, while others group brushes together.

To make a func_train, you have to select the brushes first and only then create the func_train entity.

34 (edited by KodeBreaker 2018-04-28 19:16:27)

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

It the it wrote:

I also know that if you have nothing selected, open the entity window, and click "worldspawn" radiant will select all the brushes in the map. I am not sure if this means it also selects the brushes that have been tied to an entity/ turned into entity.

Oh No! That's exactly what I did a couple days ago but with func_train by accident! I didn't think it would do THAT. I even have a screenshot of this!

Is there a way to undo this?

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BIGPROBLEM3.PNG 37.23 kb, 64 downloads since 2018-04-28 

35

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

KodeBreaker wrote:

Is there a way to undo this?

Hopefully this will basically get you on the right track again:
1.Have nothing selected (press esc).

2.Open the entity list (press L or view > entity list (warning: as i said i am using gtkradiant, though it is probably the same in netradiant). Click "worldspawn".

alternate 2: press the "i" key or edit > invert selection.

3. Click entities > ungroup.

4. To make only the brushes you want to move be func_train, you might have to put them in func_train entities again.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP
にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)

36

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

How do I change the curve size for my fence to fit the outer and inner parts of my regular curve?

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37

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

see post 26 to help understanding of this post

Example values for making your fence curves fit around the path:
(here example with for fence: 8units)
(thinking of the online curve tool being used)
(for this example in both attached screenshots, one grid square will = 128 units in radiant)
(sorry once again I think it would be recommended to make new curves all over again with the curve tool)

(in this example in both curves the inner and outer radius will be the same at the start and end of the curve. In the screenshots of this post you will see the starting and ending radius values the same, when using the online curve tool)

--(in these screenshots the pink will mean inner radius and green will mean outer radius)
--(thinking of screenshot 1)
inner radius: 2 squares (256 units)
outer radius: 2 squares + 8units (result: 264)

--(thinking of screenshot 2)
inner radius: 1 square - 8units (result: 120)
outer radius: 1 square (128 units)

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screenshot1_5_1_18.jpeg 30.56 kb, 205 downloads since 2018-05-01 

screenshot2_5_1_18.jpeg 29.57 kb, 206 downloads since 2018-05-01 

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
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38

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

I'm still having trouble with whole the radius thing. I keep trying to find the radius but it always ends up being wrong. I imported an extra curve so can find the center better and help me find the radiuses but I can never find them. hmm

(BTW my width and thickness is 4 units if that helps.)

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Radius1.PNG 527.59 kb, 80 downloads since 2018-05-02 

Radius2.PNG 47.19 kb, 64 downloads since 2018-05-02 

39

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

All the information you need is already there. Here's a couple of ways to figure out how big things are:

1) When you select one or more brushes, the selection outline shows its dimensions along each axis. So what happens when you select all the brushes of a curve? The number shows you the diameter of the curve. In this image the diameter is 512 (rounded up from 511.692). Radius = diameter divided by 2 = 256 units.

2) There are rulers along the edge of the 2D view. So how do you use them to figure out the radius of a curve? Just import your curve and look at the ruler. Curves are automatically placed at the origin (where the X, Y and Z axes meet), which means the center point is at 0 and the value on the ruler you see at the edge of your curve is literally the radius of the curve.

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40

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

Thanks parasti! smile

41

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

parasti wrote:

2) There are rulers along the edge of the 2D view. So how do you use them to figure out the radius of a curve? Just import your curve and look at the ruler. Curves are automatically placed at the origin (where the X, Y and Z axes meet), which means the center point is at 0 and the value on the ruler you see at the edge of your curve is literally the radius of the curve.

I didnot think of this

The post I was going write would have said about the same thing but with more words. Not only that my method would probably not have been as convenient. Being a developer must make it easier to give good advice

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
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にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)

42

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

How do I make my LoopCurve into a slope?

43

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

what kind of slope? one that begins flat, rises up in the middle, and slopes down again to the same level (z-position)? If you want this, the "h" parameter in the curves page is good

if you want a slope that starts at one level (z-pos), rises (or falls?) to another z-pos, and does not return to the first z-pos, the "s" parameter is good.

in both of these parameters , you might want to chk the "ct" parameter. Note that the parameters s, id, od, h, ct are called "advanced curve settings" or something. Parameters p2 and p3 might also be advanced curve settings. I got this "advanced settings" name from the command line curve tool. When you get to these parameters when setting them in this tool it asks you if you want to set them b/c they are advanced.

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It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
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44

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

I am on my second level and I got 2 questions.

1. How do I make complete circles on the online curve tool? (I can only get a ring)

2. Is there a way to cut out a circular hole into an existing brush?

45 (edited by It the it 2018-05-06 05:49:43)

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

1. If you want a circle, all you have to do in the online or cmd curve tool is to set the inner radius (parameter r0) to 0 and then set beginning angle (a0) to zero and ending angle (a1) to 360


2. This is a little bit complicated. There are 3 methods I can think of off the top of my head:
  a. (kinda awkward) If you know a lvl with a hole (er, well, a set of brushes that form a hole) , you could copy this hole and paste it into your lvl.

  b. a short hole tutorial by ht-never. Although this is a convenient and neat idea, I think the developers would not recommend it sad. The main reason would be the brush arrangement it causes goes against the editing recommendations. Another smaller reason is that this method (might) gives you less flexibility in texturing brush geometry arrangement etc.

  c. There is the fancy-brush-geometry method that you see in official lvlsets in radiant including Neverball easy, medium, and hard and Nevermainia. Basically in this method the brushes are arranged so that at each vertex of the cirlcle (er, many-sided polygon), you see brush edges running from this point to a common point. Usually there are 4 of these common points, making sort of a square shape around the hole. (An exapmle off the top of my head viewable in radiant is the start point in the "wood glass frames" lvl in my lvl set file "iti_levels_r13.zip" (here).
    A summary of the steps as I do them to do this mehtod:
      1. Make a curve with curve tool. In curve tool the curve is made so that the inner void section is the hole. From this point on donot edit the vertices of the hole section (except in the next step)!
      2. In radiant, be in the xy grid view. Select all of the brushes. Change to the vertex editing mode. Select all of the vertices. Be in the smallest grid mode. Press ctrl+g (i think it is) to make each vertex snap to the closest grid position.
      3. Deselect all (press esc). Select one brush. Drag one of its outer 2 vertices to a common point. Drag the other outer vertex really far out. Then use the clipper tool to make an edge going from the common point to the other inner vertex.
      4. Change selection to the next brush in the quadrant of brushes in the curve. Do the last step on this brush. Continue until you do all the brushes of the quadrant.
      5. Do last step in the other 3 quadrants of curve brushes.
      6. Now you will see a big wide empty triangle space sitting in each pair of adjacent common vertices and in the middle. Fill this space with a triangle. Be sure all 3 vertices of this triangle overlap corresponding vertices!
      7. Do step 6 to get the other 3 big wide triangles.

hope this helps

ps when I say "brush geometry" I am saying "geometry" in a loose way only really meaning the placement of the faces, vertices, edges, etc


EDIT: pps congratulations on completing dev of a lvl ! smile

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP
にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)

46

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

I made a thing. Have a look.

This is how holes used to be made, at least. Making the hole itself is easy, it's the brush cleanup that takes a bit of effort - well worth it, though, to reduce the triangle count and avoid t-intersections.

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47 (edited by It the it 2018-05-06 15:14:42)

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

wow thx for the method smile

Your gif moves a bit fast for me, but I got it after a few full cycles. I think this gif, er series of imgs, could go in the Neverball mapping documentation. smile

Your method is a bit simpler than my method. One thing is you do not have to make a curve and try to make the inner gap portion of the curve be the hole. You just have to make a brush that is an actual brush/hole in the center but filled in.

(If I am right) the only real thing to my knowldege would be: the smallest grid in netradiant is 1unit, while in gtkradiant the smallest grid is 0.125unit.


EDIT: Just as I thought it would be as in the thread "decade approaching": now that there are 1-2 new mappers asking questions and things, we busy ones are finally posting more again. tongue

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP
にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)

48

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

It the it wrote:

(If I am right) the only real thing to my knowldege would be: the smallest grid in netradiant is 1unit, while in gtkradiant the smallest grid is 0.125unit.

That would be incorrect. You can snap the brush to a sub-unit grid if you want. The point is, you have to snap to a grid to be able to use the clipper tool effectively, because you can only place clipper points on the grid. I use a 1-unit grid out of habit (it has a handy shortcut on 1).

49

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

I got another 2 questions,

1. How do I make something hollow? I tried the make detail and the CSG Hollow thing and they both didn't work.

2. Can I get a separate .map file for the barriers that are used in levels like Circuit 1 & 2 and Backforth?

50 (edited by It the it 2018-05-07 22:26:38)

Re: Beginning to Map (Also Known as KödeBreaker's Mapping Questions)

KodeBreaker wrote:

1. How do I make something hollow? I tried the make detail and the CSG Hollow thing and they both didn't work.

?

Sorry, if these 2 commands are not working here are the only things off the top of my head:
  a. CSG Hollow might work only when you are selected to only one brush.
  b. see the gtkradiant (where is the netradiant one?) editor manual linked to in post 12

Also when you do the "make detail" and CSG hollow commands you can see that it did in the log window (think it is called) at bottom of radiant window and white


KodeBreaker wrote:

2. Can I get a separate .map file for the barriers that are used in levels like Circuit 1 & 2 and Backforth?

A thing off the top of my head would be to select all the brushes you want from a map, copy, start a separate map, paste, and save this new map. The hide (view > hide/show > [both commands here])(this is how it is in gtkradiant, probably same in netradiant) and region tools can help

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP
にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)