1

Topic: STORE

Hi all!

I was thinking about the future of Freeland, and i have some new levels (work in progress). Than, i thinked...

Maybe, there will be a store in Neverball, for download additional levelset directly from the game... it's a good idea

What do you think?

~DEV

2

Re: STORE

I think that if we had stuff downloadable from within the game, it'd probably be best to host them on the neverball.org site or nevercorner.net if Shino is willing.

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

3

Re: STORE

Yes, i agree... the host isn't a problem, but i'd like to download level directly for the game... it could be fun

~DEV

4

Re: STORE

No problem for hosting this stuff on nevercorner.net, if it is needed.

5

Re: STORE

There would be a lot of work in implementing such a feature, and I think we'd need to put some level of quality control on stuff that was available for download through the game. Unless there's someone who's really keen on developing this and can come up with some robust code that's congruent with Neverball's structure and design patters, I don't see this happening in the short to medium term.

It'd probably be best to not use the term 'store' though. That sort of implies transactions and exchanges, which I don't really think fits with what Neverball is.

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

6

Re: STORE

I don't see this happening at all. I don't think that downloading a ZIP file from a website is a lot to ask from a computer-using individual. Besides, a decent website would far surpass what a puny, limited in-game interface could ever hope to offer.

7

Re: STORE

parasti wrote:

I don't see this happening at all. I don't think that downloading a ZIP file from a website is a lot to ask from a computer-using individual. Besides, a decent website would far surpass what a puny, limited in-game interface could ever hope to offer.

You're right... maybe we need to host in nevercorner.net files and use this site (or another similar site): http://neverballstore.tk

~DEV

8

Re: STORE

Is there a reason that the existing level contributions forums and wiki pages aren't enough?
Wiki Page
Sub-Forum

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

9 (edited by ht-never 2012-05-26 12:09:29)

Re: STORE

I think that the final levelset should have a place in a different page then topics about unfinished maps such as what happen with the forum or a page in a wiki with a lot of broken links. the second thinks to say is that a website is more beautifull, and people will be sure to download only finished and fixed packages

Anyway, what about this design? (about neverballstore.tk)

~DEV

10

Re: STORE

Ht-never, the bluegum ball you made won't work. I tried it in Nuncabola, but it appeared as a shadow.

Thought you should know.

It the it's level set: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2922
6/19/17: a bit of help needed here, plz: http://neverforum.com/fmpbo/viewtopic.php?id=2988
avatar drawn with ANVIL-1000MD (c) and scaled down with GIMP
にほんご べんきょう する。 (i am studying japanese)

11 (edited by Cheeseness 2012-05-27 04:47:43)

Re: STORE

ht-never wrote:

I think that the final levelset should have a place in a different page then topics about unfinished maps such as what happen with the forum or a page in a wiki with a lot of broken links. the second thinks to say is that a website is more beautifull, and people will be sure to download only finished and fixed packages

I wasn't aware that we put unfinished stuff in the wiki. Whether or not it has broken links is a bit irrelevant - it needs to be maintained just as much as any other site that had lists of maps would be (it's possible that it's not currently getting the attention it needs).

Anyway, what about this design? (about neverballstore.tk)

If we were going to have something official that highlighted quality community maps and sets, then I think it would be worth having something that matched the neverball.org site in look and feel (although I'm a bit biased there), and it would make the most amount of sense to have that as a part of the official neverball.org site if it happend.

It seems to me that outside of that, the forums and wiki are where people who were looking for additional maps would go, so that's likely to be the most appropriate place to keep them (I agree that we could do more to highlight the wiki, and that it might benefit from a cleanup).

parasti wrote:

Besides, a decent website would far surpass what a puny, limited in-game interface could ever hope to offer.

Actually, XMoto's in-game dowload system is pretty neat and encompasses most of what's on the Nevertable and our wiki whilst adding ratings and a few other bits and pieces.

That said, I find it a little difficult to see the practical value of such a thing for Neverball at this point - anything that adheres to the mapping guidelines and is well polished is likely to make it into a release of the game itself, so having then available as separate downloads seems unnecessary.


Edit: Also, were you aware that your site has no link back to either the official neverball.org webiste or the official community/forums at nevercorner.net? I don't mind either way - I'm just curious as to whether or not that's intentional.

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

12

Re: STORE

Ehm... Neverball.org's website is PHP, my website draft is DHTML. So, if you want a site similar to Neverball.org, maybe a page into neverball.org, i could talk with the author of the site... is he rlk?

~DEV

13 (edited by Cheeseness 2012-05-27 13:14:08)

Re: STORE

I created the look and feel for the current site (inspired by the in-game "alien" environment). Jammnrose wrote the markup with input from parasti, myself and others (if you search through the forums, you can find threads with those discussions).

The PHP of the neverball.org site outputs HTML 4.01 Strict, so that it's written in PHP isn't really relevant. The type of layout that you've got is pretty straightforward to achieve (although it would be best done with markup that validates - you can see the validation results for your site here).

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

14

Re: STORE

If the site is PHP is relevant because DHTML doesn't output nothing, since is a client-based language. So, there are many difference with the PHP-site. Can i have access to the PHP source code?

~DEV

15

Re: STORE

ht-never wrote:

If the site is PHP is relevant because DHTML doesn't output nothing, since is a client-based language. So, there are many difference with the PHP-site. Can i have access to the PHP source code?

The PHP source outputs HTML. You can copy the markup from that and put it in a static page and it will work.

Yes, there are differences with the way that data is processed and stored, but that's not relevant to styling (if you want to see how the layout and CSS for the neverball.org site works, you can see it all from the HTML that's rendered).

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

16

Re: STORE

I'll have to download all the resources... but it will work, yes

~DEV

17 (edited by ht-never 2012-05-27 15:15:15)

Re: STORE

I made a draft:


http://s12.postimage.org/5bo8bckkt/Capture.png

~DEV

18

Re: STORE

Cheeseness wrote:

Whether or not it has broken links is a bit irrelevant - it needs to be maintained just as much as any other site that had lists of maps would be (it's possible that it's not currently getting the attention it needs).

On the contrary, an automatic system that acts as both a host and a directory of level sets certainly would not need that level of maintenance.

It seems to me that outside of that, the forums and wiki are where people who were looking for additional maps would go, so that's likely to be the most appropriate place to keep them (I agree that we could do more to highlight the wiki, and that it might benefit from a cleanup).

I and I'm sure a lot of other people would hardly look beyond the official website or the first hit for "Neverball custom levels". Not everyone wants immediate commitment to a community, even if that means simply creating a forum account. (Or three, because Nevertable and Neverwiki are not linked to the forum. Hell, I'm not willing to make that commitment, as I only have two of the three accounts.)

And while I agree that the low visibility of both the wiki and the forum is also at fault, I don't believe the wiki is necessarily worthy of any more visibility. It's a cluster of some useful, but mostly useless and outdated information with no maintenance nor quality control. (The fact that the wiki software is a PITA to work with doesn't encourage participation either.)

parasti wrote:

Besides, a decent website would far surpass what a puny, limited in-game interface could ever hope to offer.

Actually, XMoto's in-game dowload system is pretty neat and encompasses most of what's on the Nevertable and our wiki whilst adding ratings and a few other bits and pieces.

And attempting to implement the same in Neverball would result in a puny, limited interface. Problem?

19

Re: STORE

I think that implement the store in-game it will be limited, but funny, so i agree with parasti. But if we make a page in the official site with downloads it should be very usefull. How about my draft?

~DEV

20

Re: STORE

parasti wrote:
Cheeseness wrote:

Whether or not it has broken links is a bit irrelevant - it needs to be maintained just as much as any other site that had lists of maps would be (it's possible that it's not currently getting the attention it needs).

On the contrary, an automatic system that acts as both a host and a directory of level sets certainly would not need that level of maintenance.

This is true. The wiki still needs cleaning up regardless though.

parasti wrote:

It seems to me that outside of that, the forums and wiki are where people who were looking for additional maps would go, so that's likely to be the most appropriate place to keep them (I agree that we could do more to highlight the wiki, and that it might benefit from a cleanup).

I and I'm sure a lot of other people would hardly look beyond the official website or the first hit for "Neverball custom levels". Not everyone wants immediate commitment to a community, even if that means simply creating a forum account. (Or three, because Nevertable and Neverwiki are not linked to the forum. Hell, I'm not willing to make that commitment, as I only have two of the three accounts.)

You've taken my quote out of context. The preceding paragraph was saying that the official site is the best place, and "outside of that", the forums and the wiki are the Next Best Thing.

Don't get me wrong - what we've got now is by no means perfect. We've got zero congruity, a fair degree of functionality overlap, and as you say, the lack of unified login makes stuff pretty inaccessible. I'd really like to see us sort out that stuff though.

parasti wrote:

And while I agree that the low visibility of both the wiki and the forum is also at fault, I don't believe the wiki is necessarily worthy of any more visibility. It's a cluster of some useful, but mostly useless and outdated information with no maintenance nor quality control. (The fact that the wiki software is a PITA to work with doesn't encourage participation either.)

You say that visibility is a fault, but it's not worthy of having that corrected? Or do you mean that in its current form (until the content is tidied up and/or the wiki is easier to use/better managed), it's not worth giving a lot of attention to?

parasti wrote:

And failing to implement the same in Neverball would result in a puny, limited interface. Problem?

^Fixed <3

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

21

Re: STORE

Yes... ehm... what about the page that i've made?

~DEV

22

Re: STORE

parasti wrote:

The fact that the wiki software is a PITA to work with doesn't encourage participation either.

Nice to have your feedback about dokuwiki, but what exactly is so bad about it ? If you and the community think we should change the software and have suggestions about this point, post them. I'm open to new ideas and could take a look if needed.

23

Re: STORE

I think that a wiki isn't the way... there aren't many people that want to write documentation, so i think that information can be enclosed in neverball.org, because this is the most viewed site about neverball.

~DEV

24

Re: STORE

Having such a page on the neverball.org site would be in addition to the existing wiki page, not instead of. Both would still need to be maintained (even if a list of downloadable sets were available on the neverball.org site were automated, there's still maintenance involved with keeping them up to date, selecting which ones are appropriate for putting up there, etc.).

Cheese
==========
cheesetalks.net

25

Re: STORE

Can I have feedback about my work with the site's page?

~DEV