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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tonesfrommars wrote:

This is my first experience using radiant, so the level is an excuse to learn the fundamentals.
Tuxmym, I borrowed the tube from your longpipe map in the suite.
I know it is a long level, hopefully not tedious.

give yourself a value of 18000 for time on this level (3 minutes)

Nice level tonesfrommars !
You can use what part of my levels you want wink
Indeed your level is very hard but not too hard for expert players I think.
I would prefer if the end was a little bit easier, I think one need some luck or a great control to correctly bounce on the tiny platforms.
Some textures aren't well set, I've sent you some screenshots to point where the problems are.
Reflecting textures should only be used in a Z coordinate of 0, elsewhere, the reflexion is biased. Moreover do not apply these textures on vertical faces.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Tuxmym (and I) are using his MinGW build of Neverball/Putt that has no reliance on MSVC*.dll at all

Now that was clever smile

Currently Playing:
Celeste and Electronic Super Joy

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tones, I just checked it out. This level is great! I love it! very clever design. There are lots of possible shortcuts in the level, which I love - lots of freestyle!

Let's hear some best times: 1:16'76"  for me, but I know I can do better...

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

I legitimately finished the level once in just under 2 minutes (taking everything really slow), but freestyled a 9'88" which won't be possible any more if tonesfrommars raises the goal platform.

It's a taste i have acquired.

30 (edited by Dave 2005-10-19 00:51:57)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Okay, my new stats:
Freestyle technique 1: 32'68"
Freestyle technique 2: 19'13"
Both repeatable if the Goal is raised only a little bit... Big changes might change my ability to do those...

Paul, my jaw drops at the thought of that time! How did you do it?

Edit: Okay, I got it figured out. I managed a 6'67" with that technique... Hardly seems fair. Even though it will probably wreck my current freestyle techniques all around, I'd suggest raising the platform at least 64 units, maybe a little more.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Dave, 6 to 7 seconds seems about right, I popped up there by accident ( I was aiming for the wooden path after the mover) and wobbled around the goal a little. Are you bouncing back toward the teleporter target in your freestyle runs? I actually landed iside the tube once, but couldn't hold on.

Tonesfrommars: I think it would probably be best to raise the goal a little.

It's a taste i have acquired.

32

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

One of my strategies is to go straight forward from the start : you will hit the platform below in just the right spot to bounce up and aim for the far tube, then de-bounce on the little pathway infront of the tube and then proceed as normal to finish the level.

the other way involves landing in the near tube and either immediately falling out onto the below path, or miraculously taking the upper path and then finishing as normal. (If you take the below path method, you head for the wall to bounce off it in the same manner as the upper road, to get proper speed for the jump, but it's scarier.)

I guess I could post my replays instead of trying to explain it like this... Maybe later. I hate putting stuff on my webspace - such a hassle. It's late, gotta go.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Glad you guys like the level,
MYM thanks for the expert tips on texture placement, and for taking the time to point out those details, I will get around to fixing them soon.
I do plan to somehow make it impossible to jump directly to the goal,
but figured there would be some fun freestyle shortcuts in many places.
I finally got myself a usb mouse with a scroll wheel, so using radiant will be a lot more expedient now.
Dave, when you get a round to it, I'd like to see one of your replays.

cheers

34

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Update: I got a 6'60" using that method and have the replay saved at easy 1 if anyone wants to see it. I much prefer the wide array of other freestyle possibilities (it does seem a little unfair for such a well organized "obsticle course").

tonesfrommars: I know you didn't ask me (sniff) but I can send you some of my more interesting replays if you'd like.

It's a taste i have acquired.

35

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

paul wrote:

...have the replay saved at easy 1 ...

I have learned that one does not need to have the level (.sol file) in the same slot as the replay. But rather just in the same folder/directory. So, if I have runner.sol in my map-rlk folder, I should be able to view the replay, without even having any reference to it in the levels-easy.txt file.

I learned this because I have several replays from my older versions of the freestyle training course, and they will play properly, and use the old versions of the .sol level, since I left them in the folder, and simply changed the levels-easy.txt to point to the new one. (In other words, even though Easy Level 1 was pointing to map1-4.sol, I could correctly play replays that referenced map1-3.sol because that level was still in the map-rlk folder.)

So, if someone made a new folder to play this level, called map-tfm and placed the runner.sol in it, and saved a replay - in order for us to view that replay, all we would have to do is have a folder(in the data folder) called map-tfm, and place the runner.sol in that folder. Viola!

I suppose that info should go into its own thread or something, instead of in this one. I'll test it further and make sure that it works always(I think it does), and then I'll post my findings.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Yes, please Paul.
I'd be thrilled to see any replays of this level.
Any thoughts from you guys about the final jump?
Should I widen the bounce platforms? Is it too hard or frustrating after all the maneouvering (sp?) to get there?

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Tuxmym wrote:

Reflecting textures should only be used in a Z coordinate of 0, elsewhere, the reflexion is biased. Moreover do not apply these textures on vertical faces.

Is this because of how the background files work?
I was using Jupiter/space as the background for this level.
The stars more or less look the same even if reflected upside down.
Do you think this is acceptable?
Also, I could do away with some of the mirrored surfaces in the one downward spiraling ramp,
but I'm quite attached to the giant mirror you bounce off of at the end. (that one is vertical)

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tonesfrommars,
I've added a link to my replays at the top of https://people.unt.edu/pt0069/
According to what Dave figured out, they should play if you put a copy of runner.sol in /data/map-paul/

I'm still not able to use all three platforms. the one time I did finish I was able to get to the goal off the first platform.

It's a taste i have acquired.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

paul wrote:

I'm still not able to use all three platforms. the one time I did finish I was able to get to the goal off the first platform.

I've never even tried to use all three platforms. It looks way too hard. But it would be the only way to go, if you wanted to try and get those blue coins... I have always just bounced into the goal from the first platform(lots of speed!) After all of the trouble to get up there, it would be nice to have the platforms a bit larger.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tonesfrommars, the ball's reflection will always be right under it, it doesn't matter if a mirror is horizontal or vertical, it just sort of has to be in the view. And from what I can tell it doesn't matter how high is a mirror, when it is in the level, the 0 coordinate of z-axis is the mirror. So, the higher the ball, the lower the reflection, and even if your mirror is horizontal the ball will have no visible reflection.

Hope I'm right, though.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

paul wrote:

According to what Dave figured out, they should play if you put a copy of runner.sol in /data/map-paul/

It worked like a charm! No problem viewing the replays, which are very fun to watch, btw.


I don't understand relection at all, but I do think it looks strange to see the sides of some of the ramps and stuff take on greenish hue from surroundings/background. Is the mirror that you use a standard mtrl texture or is it one of the ones from Tuxmym's Mehdi2 set? I only ask because it is a big white square on my machine(but I'm testing your level in my "testing" install of Neverball, which doesn't have Mehdi2 installed. It's mainly just for trying out my own levels...)

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Dave wrote:

Is the mirror that you use a standard mtrl texture or is it one of the ones from Tuxmym's Mehdi2 set? I only ask because it is a big white square on my machine

Actually, for me it's a big black sqare with no reflection. I never checked to see what texture is being used.

It's a taste i have acquired.

43 (edited by parasti 2005-10-20 21:33:37)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

It seems to be the 'dark-mirror' texture and it is included with the source. Works fine here... Paul, do you see any other reflective surfaces? Because if you turn the reflection off (or your hardware doesn't support it) all mirrors become more or less just dark textures. Actually the mirrors look somewhat nice with that space-like background, they look completely different with the red one (alien?), for example.

Anyway, tonesfrommars, keep the final platforms as they are, those blue coins are worth it! tongue One *can* finish the level without them. And for a 'most coins' it's easy enough to get there fast and practice just that one part, until you're familiar with the technique...

And by the way, great replays, Paul!

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Oh, Duh!
Thanks parasti, I forgot I turned reflection off.

Thanks for the compliment. I've devoted all my free time (not much for a PhD student) to finding possible shortcuts in this level. More massive levels like this would be awesome!

It's a taste i have acquired.

45

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Hey, I just watched replays from Paul and Dave, they are crazy!
You guys both seem to be really good with the "diagonal" acceleration.
This really helps clarify for me the final strucural changes I want to make to the level.
(Mostly blocking the direct-to-goal short cut)
Thanks

46 (edited by Dave 2005-10-26 23:55:25)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Tones,
I'll admit, I never once actually bounced on any more than just the one platform to get to the goal. It seemed so hard that way, that I opted for the shortcut every time! I'm glad to help you out, though I'll miss that nice shortcut. sad
Diagonal acceleration is the name of the game in my latest freestyle level. It is pretty hard, so be warned - it's not the "basic training" level for this technique. It started out with that in mind, but quickly grew into a much more difficult version.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

I've updated the files for my "runner" level to reflect changes I've made.
If anyone's interested, see links in the first post of this thread.

I removed the offending reflective surfaces here and there.
Tux.. I now understand exactly the reason why reflectives should only be used at a "zero" Z value. Thanks again for that tip.
I Also did away with the bounce pads in the final jump, it's quite easy now.
No more direct shortcut to goal, and fewer all around, as I relocated the post-transporter section.

Dave.. I made use of your dark green edge texture to clean things up.
Thanks again for providing these options, and btw when I find the time to start on some new levels,
I will be creating some new textures of my own.

48 (edited by tonesfrommars 2006-02-06 22:51:54)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Hi guys..

I've put another level up on my site.
See links at beginning of thread or:

[link removed]

The new level is meant to be like a puzzle, just follow the available switches and keep your eye in the sky to gain access to the upper tiers. Lines of sight didn't quite pan out like I'd hoped, but I'm pretty happy with it.
Please let me know your thoughts or any mistakes/glitches you find.

Thanks!

EDIT: This level now included in tones-levels set.
Download here

49 (edited by paul 2005-11-15 03:55:09)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

First impressions are that it's great. I like that every new section has a little suprise to trip you up (I've fallen for every one so far!)...

more once i finish it, or at least play it some more...

Edit: one thing i did notice is that because your use of textures is really, really cool it makes the sections with only one texture (no wooden edges, flat gray, etc.) look empty.

also, it might not work out well, but it would be nice if the map were rotated to put the first switch directly in front of you.

I really do like the surprises, and waiting to see what will happen next. now if only i didn't go so slow...

It's a taste i have acquired.

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Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

That's a good idea to rotate things, although it would prove difficult, as some of the ramps are built on a diagonal,
so the first switch is 45 degrees off-axis. I kind of figure this level is about exploring and looking around anyhow.

I agree about the detailed textures, what happened was I kind of hit the wall (over 1000 lumps) and had to switch to a
"keep the numbers down" mode. I'm noticing the level is so big, that (depending which background one uses) it can be a bit slow frames/second wise. I can do some simple things to spice up the last ramps for more consistency, good suggestion.

thanks for playing!