1 (edited by tonesfrommars 2010-12-24 08:21:55)

Topic: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Currently 20 levels.
My goal is to eventually make an entire set of 25.

Just drop the tones2010.zip file into Neverball's data folder.

NOTE: This set is now compatible with version 1.5.4, any dev build and of course Nuncabola.

Please feel free to offer any feedback in this thread. Particularly let me know about progression of difficulty, if any levels seem out of order, and feedback on my highscore settings. I have not given any attention to fast unlock highscores and some of the levels are still changing.

Thanks!

Some screenshots:

bump
hotwheels
discs
waves
swish
city

Post's attachments

tones-2010.zip 4.11 mb, 316 downloads since 2010-12-23 

2 (edited by paul 2005-10-11 22:43:32)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Got it - Wow! It looks really neat. More comments after I play\look at it more.

BTW the map file downloaded as runner.map.htm, after removing the .htm it opened fine in radiant

Edit:

Ok, i know i haven't actually finished the level yet (I always fall off the two gray down ramps. . . but I will keep trying), but this level is really neat!

My thoughts:
- At the end of the first down ramp T-intersections occur with the horizontal platform
- It is possible to jump directly to the goal from this down ramp by hitting the flat platform corner (I saved a replay of it, but it's saved at level 15 of my own set. . . I'll try to recreate it with the level at easy 1).
- I really like the wide variety of obstacles in this massive level. Are you planning to put it at the end of a set, with all the other levels leading up to it?
- Also, you are much better at imaginative texture choices than I am.

Now back to trying to finish it. . .

It's a taste i have acquired.

3

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

thanks for catching those T-sections in the beginning, I've corrected them.
I'm thinking of allowing for a shortcut from that platform, but not directly to the goal, didn't realize you could get enough height off that corner to reach the it..!

Also, there's serious mapping problems with the curved grey section before the first jump.
Can someone give me a hint on how to create clean curves?

btw, paul you're at UNT in Denton, right? I was a music student there in the early 90s.

4 (edited by paul 2005-10-11 23:49:37)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tonesfrommars,

Did you use rlk's curve program, or do it all by hand? I can send you the compiled curve.exe if you don't have it (curve.c is downloadable from http://icculus.org/neverball/mapping/ in the curves section) I can get pretty smooth curves in the manner you're using them.

I was trying to jump over to the wooden catwalks, but I caught more of the corner than I planned and popped right up there (I've done it several times now)

Yes, I just started working on my PhD in Music Theory at UNT. It's nice to meet an alumn. btw, I also went to school with Dave at the University of Oklahoma. 3 musicians interested in neverball . . . quite a coincidence!

It's a taste i have acquired.

5

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

ugh, its a good level, but there are ALOT of white spots O.o

6

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

another look at the level, too many very narrow pathways, it is VERY difficult to navigate 75% of the time

7 (edited by tonesfrommars 2005-10-12 06:36:00)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Hi Rodimus..

It is not an easy level.
You have to watch your speed and have good control of the ball at all times.
Have you tried Mehdi's N25?
What do you mean about "white spots?"

thanks for taking a look.
ps.. sorry about your granny..


Paul, thanks for mentioning the curve program, I wasn't aware of it.
I am currently working on a Mac using Radiant 1.4 (I've read that 1.5 is buggy in OS X)
My computer skills are limited, do you think I can compile curve.c in OS X?

If not, I may ask you to email me the compiled executable.
I did notice the nice curves in one of your thwomp levels.

8

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

You should be able to compile curve.c, the program is fairly simple so you shouldn't get any errors. I'm not sure what c compilers there are for Mac (I know very little about Mac at all), but I know they are out there.

It's a taste i have acquired.

9 (edited by parasti 2005-10-12 16:43:24)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Very impressive, tonesfrommars! This level is extremely well done... Have you done any mapping before? Anyway, glitches I encountered:

* missing texture on one of the corners where the 'downward spiral' meets the upper lumps
* misaligned coin pads on the outer square next to the teleport entry
* teleport exit is a few units higher than 'ground'?

And those regarding the curves as well... themacmeister has posted a little 'how-to' about compiling in OSX. Probably should work with just replacing 'mapc' with 'curve'... If you see errors like "undefined reference to `cos'", try "gcc -o curve curve.c -lm".

10

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Thanks Parasti for the help..

The missing texture that you spotted above the down spiral section is actually intentional,
It's supposed to be like a wrench around a square bolt-head kind of thing.
Take another look and see if it makes sense, if I get lots of raised eyebrows about it, I'll consider making it solid.

I'm going to set to work on getting going with rlk's curve program, and fix that windy section.

This is my first time mapping, so it's taken lots of work to gain an understanding of how radiant functions.
Thanks for the encouragement.

Anyhow, I'm updating the files that I linked at the top of this thread to reflect the fixes thus far.

11 (edited by paul 2005-10-13 00:19:48)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

I believe your inner radius should be 192 and you outer radius 224. I would see what it looks like with 20 lumps, then adjust if necessary. With an initial angle of 0 and a final angle of 90 you'll be able to rotate and shorten, then copy and paste to your map. Let us know if you get it working properly. If not, I'd be glad to create and send them to you (I'm too stubborn to ask for help).

Edit:
Be very careful with the resulting curve, dragging edges at a wierd angle can really cause problems. Looking back at my maps I see places where I wasn't so careful. I'd be sure to line it up with grid8 (4)  before pasting it into your real map.

As for the gaps at the "down spiral," I take a rest in them to prepare for the descent. Otherwise I'd never make it all the way down.

It's a taste i have acquired.

12

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/6640 … pot6jr.png

see?

13

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Thanks Paul, I will let you know if I need help executing some curves.
Yeah, I experienced the potential dangers of dragging edges on the fly, especially when snapping to the grid.
Seems to me it has to be done exactly right before introducing the element into a map.

Rodimus, that is a decal, should be a white arrow.
Paul or parasti, is this fluke showing up for either of you?

Anyone know why that would occur?
Perhaps try downloading my most recent .map file and compile it yourself..?
Are the other decals doing this too? (teleporter, switch, goal?)

14

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

I haven't had any texture problems in your map, but I've seen that problem before with the black arrow in one of my own maps. I have no idea why it happens, and I can't remember how I fixed it.

It's a taste i have acquired.

15 (edited by parasti 2005-10-13 19:21:21)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tonesfrommars wrote:

The missing texture that you spotted above the down spiral section is actually intentional,
It's supposed to be like a wrench around a square bolt-head kind of thing.
Take another look and see if it makes sense, if I get lots of raised eyebrows about it, I'll consider making it solid.

I might have expressed myself not clear enough... It looks to me exactly like what  it is supposed to look like, according to your description. Here's a (hopefully available) screenshot.

http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/123/screen004rn.th.png

Edit: Oh, and no, I haven't seen any 'white spots' Rodimus mentioned.
Edit 2: Having relatively carefully watched every inch of that part of the level, I also noticed there's a different texture on a side of the second 'flight' (I've no idea, if that's what it's called) of spiral.

16

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Now I see what parasti is talking about. The brush is there, but that side has the invisible texture rather than gray.

It's a taste i have acquired.

17 (edited by tonesfrommars 2005-10-13 21:34:20)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Got it, thanks!

The missing texture is corrected now.

I think I've resolved all the texturing issues in that section, I brought the red carpet down around the insides of the "wrench",
and got rid of the little gap/ shortened the first "landing" a bit as well.

I successfully compiled the curve program, and reworked that bit as well.
It's a much smoother ride now, a little easier to navigate, and much more pleasing to the eye.

Thanks Paul for scouting the dimensions, I just plugged in your figures, and it worked beautifully.
I would have had to spend more trial and error time working that out myself.

Have another go if you like and let me know what you think.

cheers

OK one more revision posted, Next level I design, I'll make more of a point of sticking to the 4-unit grid for texturing headaches..

18 (edited by paul 2005-10-13 22:20:32)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

tonesfrommars wrote:

Thanks Paul for scouting the dimensions, I just plugged in your figures, and it worked beautifully.
I would have had to spend more trial and error time working that out myself.

Have another go if you like and let me know what you think.

Woohoo!!! after 25 years of "eyeballing" and doing math in my head I finally got something right (Seriously, I usually make a lot of mistakes). I think the smoother curve makes that part easier, at least psycholigically.

Can't wait for more!

It's a taste i have acquired.

19 (edited by Dave 2005-10-16 03:50:08)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

I am now the novice in this matter, so please help me! I have downloaded curve.c and I stuck SDL.h into it to automatically output the text to stdout.txt, which I have tried renaming to a .map file, but it won't work!

I don't know what is wrong, the contents of the file itself match known good .map files that import correctly. Do I need to run the curve.exe program in a certain directory? I wouldn't have thought so based on the simple contents of the file, but I'm willing to accept any suggestions. I try to import my file, and nothing appears.

Edit : OOOPS! Boy I feel silly, I was putting the outside radius first, and the inside radius second, but they needed to appear in opposite order. Everything works great. I feel quite ridiculous!

20 (edited by paul 2005-10-16 04:13:57)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Hmmm... I run curve.exe, compiled w/ Bloodshed dev c++ (I assume that's what you're still using?) "as is" in the neverball-1.4.0 folder, the same way I use mapc, and have no problems importing, or cutting and pasting (what I usually do).

Try it without the SDL output and see if the .map is usable.

Oh, wait! Are you getting a .map in addition to your stdout.txt? I don't know enough about c to understand why, but if you forget the ">"
(as in "curve 244 268 30 0 90 >myawesomecurve.map") the program still runs, printing all data to the screen but doesn't save it anywhere (when the program runs correctly for me I don't get any info, just the .map I specified in my neverball-1.4.0 dir). If curve.exe sends all its data to stdout, but never actually creates the .map there might be something missing.

What exactly differentiates a .map from the text inside it? Could you create a map "by hand?"

Edit: Dave, now I feel silly. I should have noticed your edit before posting this reply. My advice and question still stand, though.

It's a taste i have acquired.

21 (edited by parasti 2005-10-16 23:07:42)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

paul wrote:

What exactly differentiates a .map from the text inside it? Could you create a map "by hand?"

The map is just a text file (the 'file' utility says it's an "ASCII C++ program text", some sort of syntax similarities), and you could probably create one manually in a text editor, if you really, really wanted to wink

I'm curious what are the reasons for modifying the program instead of redirecting standard output to a file (which is what Pauls suggested ">" operator does) smile

Added: Funny enough, now reading my post *I* feel silly as well. Should have paid more attention answering. Please ignore my question.

22

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

You guys crack me up!

Sorry for confusing everyone with my simultaneous question and answer post...

For the record: it doesn't matter what directory you run curve.exe in.

(Paul, yes I use dev-c++ still, and unless MS releases their IDE for free(unlikely!) I will continue to use it for a long time.)

23 (edited by themacmeister 2005-10-17 09:30:12)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

Dave wrote:

(Paul, yes I use dev-c++ still, and unless MS releases their IDE for free(unlikely!) I will continue to use it for a long time.)

MS have released their command-line compiler for VC71 (from memory). At a minimum, you should be able to compile apps if you know what you are doing.

I compiled curve.c with Bloodshed Dev-C++ as a 32bit console app, and it went smooth as silk. If only I could understand the angles etc. I would be fine - I did know how once, but I have since forgotten  smile

Currently Playing:
Celeste and Electronic Super Joy

24 (edited by paul 2005-10-17 13:57:19)

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

themacmeister wrote:

If only I could understand the angles etc. I would be fine - I did know how once, but I have since forgotten  smile

It's really simple, I promise. Here's how you do it step by step:
1- The inner radius matches the 1 unit grid, so you just need to add/subtract grid numbers
2- The outer radius will probably be between 8 and 64 units larger, depending on what you use it for
3- Your curve will probably never have less that 20 segments
4- Always start with 0 degrees (unless the ground is angled at the start of the curve, then you haave to use math)
5- I don't know if the final angle is measured from 0, or from your initial angle (I always start with 0).
6- I like to name my curves by inner and outer radius, but you can name them whatever you want.
and finally
7- Be careful.

Hope that helps

It's a taste i have acquired.

25

Re: Tones Levels (the thread formerly known as "level feedback?")

themacmeister wrote:

MS have released their command-line compiler for VC71 (from memory). At a minimum, you should be able to compile apps if you know what you are doing.

I actually knew about the command-line compiler, but I opt instead for Dev-C++, because it is integrated (the "I" of IDE) with the compiler, editor and debugger all at your fingertips. I think MinGW does a fine job, too, so, for me to make any sort of switch, they really would have to release the IDE itself(The editor at least, which you could manually point to the aformentioned command-line compiler...). MS's IDE is superior to Dev-c++'s in at least a few key ways, but I just can't see myself spending a chunk of money for something like that, when a pretty good free alternative is available.

paul, your number 7 rule makes me laugh. I learned the hard way not to try and create a tight radius curve(32 units) that is only 1 unit wide...(33 outside radius). I suspected it would be ugly, and I was right!