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The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
Neverforum → Tour de force & Retour de force → RTF LEVEL 14
OMG i cant move up more than 1/4 of ball height. This level is really crazy. How to get up onto giant cone 
Please help me. What cam mode is the best on this level. Chase or manulal. And how to be fast on this level. If I don't pass this level, I will not pass any other level on neverball. Please tell me, i need to konow. And whot controller is the best. Mouse or arrows? Maybe something else?
You should probably use the mouse, I don't know if it's even possible to do this level with the keyboard. A joystick might work, too. Start with the manual camera, keep moving with the mouse in circular motion until the ball gets off the ground and gains some speed, then quickly switch to chase camera (middle mouse button) and move the mouse slightly forward. If you can manage that, afterwards it is pretty straight-forward.
I don't know if it's even possible to do this level with the keyboard.
I have completed this level with the keyboard, but that was using v1.5.0 when the shape of the cone was completely round. I can't even get the ball off the ground at all with the latest version.
I did it using the keyboard with 1.5.3. I can't do it with the mouse though....... 
It's not trivial to get going. This is what I do:
Use chase view.
Step1) press (left, up, right,down, drawing a circle with your directions. If you coordinate you directions with the location of the ball, you will get faster each time around.
Step2) After about 4 revolutions or as soon as you're going fast enough, pick a angled direction and hold it until you get moving.
If you time your angled direction correctly, you'll start accelerating and eventually starting heading up the cone.
It is cake from there.
Retour de Force 14 was pretty hard for me also.
Here's what I tried doing (I like using the mouse):
1) Keep yourself on Manual view and move the mouse in a circular motion (don't stare at the mouse as you do this, look at the ball).
2) When you get high enough, switch to Chase view and immediately and make the ball stick to the edge of the cone and go maximum speed.
3) As the ball is speeding around the cone, check if you are moving clockwise or counter-clockwise. If it's clockwise, don't keep the mouse too far to the left. If it's counter-clockwise, don't keep your mouse too far to the right.
Then it's really simple.
Good luck.
Neveromar
If you use the keys, just do something similar. Keep it on Manual mode and go up, left, down, right really fast. Once you get high enough, immediately switch to Chase mode and you should have the rest of the level in the bag - er...cone.
neverstoppable 
Es re facil ese nivel solo tenes que girar la pelota rapido mientras mueves la camara, despues de que la pelota suba solo un poquito la impulsas hacia adelante y listo...
It's easy re only got that level to turn the ball quickly while moving the camera, after the ball up just a little bit forward and the push off ready ...
Al principio me costaba bastante-At first it was quite
What are your guyses thoughts on how the new chase-camera behaviour in 1.6 changes the gameplay for this particular level?
The above mentioned technique described by parasti and neveromar only works if you set the "camera_1_speed" value very high (~900+).
Funny thing you mention that... I've tried to finish all sets once again since the release of 1.6.0, but when it came to RDF14, well that's excatly where I got stuck... I can still remember it already was a pain in the... to play in 1.5.4 (yes, even harder for a keyboard player like me) but at least I COULD finish it after a while.
So either I'm just not trying it as persistently anymore or it got harder if not impossible now when sticking to standard/default settings... ;(
By the way I've used to complete this level in chase-camera and not manual-camera mode as suggested here before. (The trick that did it for me: fast, circular movement in one direction while keeping the view on permanent rotation the opposite direction)
The method above is probably a lot harder to do now (just after the switch to chase cam, the manual cam should still be identical to 1.5.4), but it's still doable with only the chase cam and simultaneous camera rotation. As an aside, another factor that plays into this is mouse sensitivity. I've never been able to get off the ground in this level with the default sensitivity.
You are right parasti, with a high enough sens it is possible to go up the first cone just by rotating in manual camera view. It is weird to play the rest of the level though, unless you can change the sens on your mouse.
So for Challenge Mode, circling the ball while rotating the camera in the [s]other[/s] same direction is the way to go (this can be done with all 3 camera modes btw).
I was just thinking if there should be tips added to the title screen towards the only technique possible with standard settings ("Circle the ball while constantly rotating the camera in the [s]opposite[/s] same direction to get off the ground."[somewhere along those lines]), because a player that does not visit the forums will eventually give up on this level.
but when it came to RDF14, well that's excatly where I got stuck
yeah same here, after a few attempts i was like, "wow i suck at this game" haha xD
But when i switched to 1.5.4, i got it first try. That's when i remembered your post about the camera speed here.
I don't know if this is a matter of perception, but I can't get anywhere with an "opposite" camera rotation. To do it, I have to circle the mouse while rotating the camera about the ball, and I would call both rotations counter-clockwise (or clockwise, depending), therefore not opposite..?
That was my bad, i just copied the wording from dtb without really thinking about it.
Edited the post, but how do i strikeout?
I don't know if this is a matter of perception, but I can't get anywhere with an "opposite" camera rotation. To do it, I have to circle the mouse while rotating the camera about the ball, and I would call both rotations counter-clockwise (or clockwise, depending), therefore not opposite..?
By putting it "fast, circular movement in one direction while keeping the view on permanent rotation the opposite direction" I was actually talking about clockwise and anti-clockwise movement... what else?
It's true that you can call both rotations counter-clockwise (or clockwise, depending on whatever...) but - at least according to my perception - it should never be the same direction of ball and rotation at the same time; I mean sure you can spin the ball - let's say - in clockwise direction and also rotate clockwise(ly) by presssing D or right mouse button - but that doesn't get me anyhwere...
I just checked out all replays of RDF 14 on the Nevertable for clarification and in my opinion
haexxlor, uau and Craven spin the ball in anti-clockwise direction while the rotation (it can best be perceived by looking at the cone and yellow coins) seem to move/be moved in clockwise direction. Only Elviz got the ball spinning in clockwise direction and rotation anti-clockwise.
I guess that this specific level is different from others (not only that it is extremely annoying); I think that usually rotating the view/camera doesn't have any great, direct impact on the movement of the ball; usually you start rotating in one or the other direction (i.e. clock- or anti-clockwise) to overlook obstacles or simply to get in a good position after turning around or so; but in this case, it's different because the ball is trapped in a cone which actually can be spinned around itself just by rotating the view/camera and it actually does have contact with the ball and therefore also really can affect its movement (so you can definitely produce friction here).
But perhaps I'm just a victim of some visual illusion - who knows ;-)
It may seem obvious to you, because you've never seen it any other way, but it actually is a matter of perspective. The right mouse button rotates the camera in a counter-clockwise motion around the ball. It is the perceived floor motion that is clockwise.
Technically, the view-model matrix gets recomputed, so both statements ("camera changed position" and "world geometry moved") are equally valid ways of describing the change. The entire operation is visual, though, you are not "spinning the ground under the ball" and no physics are involved. As an aside, Neverball doesn't have friction.
....The entire operation is visual, though, you are not "spinning the ground under the ball" and no physics are involved. As an aside, Neverball doesn't have friction.
...just a visual operation and no physics are being involved, would also mean that camera rotation actually doesn't have any impact on ball movement and is just for changing views and better visibility or maybe for having better accessibility as well at some points, am I right? (And If so, it shouldn't make any difference whether I press S or D or just don't use camera rotation keys at all while trying to tilt the floor in such a way it can generate a circular spin of the ball in this level)
Btw. perhaps friction was the wrong word, maybe "momentum" describes better what I get out of rotation in this level.
I was referring to the act of rotating the camera while being absolutely still. Throughout that action, no additional forces are generated, it's purely visual. I never said changing the view position has no impact on any further gameplay. Watch the replays in the Help screen, one of which demonstrates the concept of "angled acceleration".
I was referring to the act of rotating the camera while being absolutely still
...and I was referring to the act of rotating the camera while being NOT absolutely still - so maybe we were talking at cross-purposes here
How to escape RTF 14:(Use mouse)
1. (use Chase Camera)Hold mouse left button than rotate the mouse
2.if ball is up,use Manuel camera and rotate the mouse
3.escape small cone!
you have absolutely right
last i completed this lvl and completing is hard. you must select the side that you will rotating
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